Deathrite Shaman Banned
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 3, 2014, 12:16 a.m. by Dalektable
I am not a modern player, but seeing this i just had to make a post about it. I'm sure many players are rejoicing while others are shouting curses to the heavens. Where do you stand on the matter? How do you feel about the banning of Deathrite Shaman and do you think it deserved a ban?
Servo_Token says... #4
If this is true (haven't seen the ban list yet, thought it would come out later tomorrow), I'm going to laugh so hard in the face of the guy in my shop that speculated on them. He now has 400 copies that are going literally nowhere.
I really do thin it deserved the ban, because it was starting to warp the format. Reanimator was no longer a thing, and it was damn near impossible to ever happen with deathrite still in. Granted, there's some other things that I would have rather had banned, but i'm totally ok with this.
February 3, 2014 12:26 a.m.
That clogs up the two drop slot, and birds is no where near as good
February 3, 2014 12:26 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
I called this like 2 weeks ago.
DRS was being played in Pod and Jund the most, these were the top 2 most dominant decks in the format. Also, DRS has the side effect of raising the value of Zen fetches.
Wizards has made modern their baby and they want it to be accessible to new players. Removing a $30+ DRS that will in turn lower the cost of the Zen fetches as a byprodect was the only sensible way to neuter he two most powerful decks in the format while driving the price of Zen fetches.
February 3, 2014 12:26 a.m.
NoOneYouKnow says... #7
Saying it died to removal is about the stupidest thing one could ever say.
Goyf dies to "removal"
Birds dies to "removal"
Just about everything in the game dies to a board wipe.
Again, pure stupidity.
However, no longer seeing turn 2 LoTV is exciting for most people.
It will be replaced by most likely noble hierarch or whatever. Some other 1 drop that still gives utility.
February 3, 2014 12:26 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
Edit:
...way to neuter the two most powerful decks in the format while driving down the price of Zen fetches...
I need to go to bed lol.
February 3, 2014 12:28 a.m.
By saying it dies to removal I mean that no matter what colors you're facing, he was very easy to get rid of. Sure a lot of creatures die to removal, but goyf doesn't die to bolt or disfigure, shaman does. Yes, it was good at what it did, and it did a lot, but it kept goyf, snappy, reanimator, vengevine and bloodghast, and living end in check.
Sorry about the not linking the cards, tough to do on my phone
February 3, 2014 12:31 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
But... goyf can die to both of those things...
And with the removal of DRS, more decks have the potential to come back up to a top tier. Personally, i'll be dusting off the snapcasters and abusing them to no end.
February 3, 2014 12:34 a.m.
If you play goyf, usually you dont play it when it's in range of either
February 3, 2014 12:36 a.m.
PrimeSpeaky says... #12
I'm personally kinda annoyed. For starters, I've been a Jund player for like a year and a half and watching DRS get the hammer after having lost BBE not all that long ago I'm giving up on keeping up on the deck. For some odd reason Wizards just seems to hate that deck lol
February 3, 2014 12:40 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #13
They hate it PrimeSpeaky, not because it's good or bad, but because it's the most played thing out there. If you was a diverse meta you can't have everyone playing the same thing.
February 3, 2014 12:42 a.m.
PrimeSpeaky says... #14
Agreed Ohthenoises, I'm just done with having my favorite deck getting smacked around by the ban hammer. On the upside, I get to play zoo again and I can play GOOD faeries lol
February 3, 2014 12:46 a.m.
I don't know for sure if this is legit, but it looks legit.
February 3, 2014 12:50 a.m.
It is officially legit. Well, Bitterblossom is pretty cool and somewhat terrifying.
February 3, 2014 12:53 a.m.
Banning cards cause they are good cards in all phases of the game and not degenerative is banning to ban.
February 3, 2014 12:59 a.m.
PrimeSpeaky says... #18
I agree with gufymike, its kind of tantamount to banning Lightning Bolt because its a good top deck almost always in any deck playing red. However, whats really going is WotC tried to tick down Pod and Jund. However, its worth noting this is the SECOND ban aimed to tick down Jund as one of the top decks. So the question I want to ask, and its totally speculative, is do we think this could be sort of the fiasco with storm where they take away perfectly fine cards from a deck over and over until its finally just not playable?
February 3, 2014 1:17 a.m.
Turn_Soonest says... #19
Is Jund even a top tier deck at this point? What replaces DRS? If Jund dies to Zoo now I literally quit magic. I hate that he got banned.
February 3, 2014 1:45 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #20
DRS banned is for a pathetic reason, and just made the game that much less fun.
February 3, 2014 2:11 a.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #21
I am pissed. I hate everything. Having Jund as a powerful deck is a GOOD thing. It's a MIDRANGE deck, that means the format isn't predominately control OR aggro.
Looking at GP Prague, the most recent Modern GP, DRS was only played in 6 out of the top 16 decks. Lightning Bolt was played in 10. MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN BOLT NOW WIZARDS IT'S SO OP
February 3, 2014 2:34 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #22
Personally I think this is awesome for myself.. I was tired of every other deck that I played at my shop running them.. Plus, no more will people be suggesting DRS & fetchlands for my Mono-Black deck either!! (Devoted to Obliteration..<--shameless plug..)
February 3, 2014 3 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #23
Personally I think this is awesome for myself.. I was tired of every other deck that I played at my shop running them.. Plus, no more will people (on this site or otherwise) be suggesting DRS & fetchlands for my Mono-Black deck either!! (Devoted to Obliteration..<--shameless plug..)
February 3, 2014 3:02 a.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #24
My deck actually just got a whole lot better because of Deathrite Shaman 's ban :) no more main-board grave-hate against my Eternal Command
Sure the card dies to every removal spell except Gut Shot , but it's just so incredibly difficult to play around for any deck using the grave..
Side-note, if I don't like Eternal Command, I'll be trading my Tarmogoyf s and Snapcaster Mage s for Bitterblossom and other staples. Thank god I already have 3x Vendilion Clique
February 3, 2014 3:48 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #25
Its not about the fact it dies to removal, it's that if you don't pack the removal to kill their one drop it a)limits you from playing certain cards and strategies and b) will bleed you out late game.
I can't say I'm happy about the ban since I've finally tracked down the playset I wanted, but I was metagaming against it and I had basically abandoned the deck I enjoy playing the most because of it.
February 3, 2014 10:04 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #26
I'm laughing on the inside at everyone who's been hoarding deathrite shamans. On the outside I'm quite sympathetic.
Sorry guys, sucks..........for you.
Don't hate me.
February 3, 2014 10:43 a.m.
megawurmple says... #28
Schuesseled I'm one of those people, and believe me, it isn't funny. I have 7 of the bastards just sat in my binder, 3 of which are signed. Soon, they're probably going to be worth a lot less than they previously were. My only hope is that their Legacy value will drive the price up again.
I agree with a lot of people on here that the ban was a bit silly. DRS is by no means a degenerative card, and although it is good at all stages in the game, I'd rather see a Tarmogoyf or a Liliana of the Veil off the top later on in the game. With Wild Nacatl now unbanned, Zoo is going to wreck Jund just because it won't be fast enough to keep up.
February 3, 2014 11:37 a.m.
A stupid ban. They've banned the only cheaper card for every GB/x deck cause they don't want lose money from goyf and liliana. If the problem is a turn 3 lotv just ban Lilly.
February 3, 2014 11:39 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #30
The problem was not the effect of the card itself, it was because it was used in so many decks. They wanted to create diversity.
Let's ban Misty Rainforest and Lightning Bolt too!
I honestly feel that DRS will be unbanned in a year or 2 if not less. I personally plan to pick up another playset or a foil playset with the price drop.
February 3, 2014 11:48 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #31
@ZSensei90: That's not how bans work. WOTC has no direct stake in the secondary market. Once a product is sold to distributors, WOTC has nothing to gain or lose from single values.
@APPLE01DOJ: The prevalence of the card was not the sole factor. DRS was a huge advantage generator for Jund and a few other decks, and it made those decks as powerful as they were. The abilities were completely relevant. Ramp for free? Play the attrition game for B/G?
Without DRS, Jund loses a lot of speed and a lot of later utility. It doesn't have any cards that can easily step in and fill DRS's slot.
@Everyone: I wouldn't panic about the price. As I said earlier in an Economics thread, DRS is only $13-14 normally. It won't suddenly sink to $5 unless every Modern player panics and sells all of his or her copies. Generally, cards only experience significant decline if they're already above the $30+ mark, and only if they aren't viable in other formats. DRS is still perfectly usable in Legacy and EDH, and it's still Standard legal.
February 3, 2014 11:56 a.m.
You're right Epochalyptik but when they made set like MM is useful for them have expensive cards unbanned, plus they made them ultramegagigamythic rare and you have your gain value. Without DRS in modern Snapcaster can do what he want so now it's time to ban him?
February 3, 2014 12:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #33
No. Snapcaster Mage isn't as flexible. It's certainly a good card, but it isn't a 1-drop planeswalker.
And you're right in saying that MMA did capitalize on secondary market demand, but DRS wasn't causing a loss of money from Goyf and Lili. Those cards sell regardless, and these bannings/unbannings aren't making or losing money for WOTC.
February 3, 2014 12:21 p.m.
This ban was to attempt to try and change the meta in the format, which the unbans would have done by themselves, but the reasoning, 'we're banning the card because it's good, not because it's oppressive or degenerate' is just fucked up. If they had been more honest about the ban, then I would be ok with it. As it stands right now, anyone arguing that the card deserved to be banned, either doesn't know how to play against the card or just hating on it because you dislike the decks on it and aren't being objective or showing any understanding of how/why cards get banned.
February 3, 2014 12:31 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #35
This sucks, makes me not want to even play magic anymore to be honest.
Epochalyptik I understand. I run him in both modern & standard. I absolutely love the card. It fuels decks. & I have to agree there is no easy replacement. People suggest a mana ramper but don't understand that he was so much more than just a mana ramper. Oh you're going to Surgical Extraction my Verdant Catacombs , I'll respond by exiling it with Deathrite Shaman first!
February 3, 2014 12:37 p.m.
CarteroOfTheOrzhov says... #36
I'm frustrated. I don't think it needed to be banned. No one I talked to thought it needed to be banned. None of the articles I've read have lead me to believe it needs to be banned. Deathrite Shaman is an excellent utility creature,and it has some very nice synergy with current staples, but it isn't broken. Wizards says they wanted to promote diversity, but all they're doing with this is making a really fast format even faster. Jund was by no means stomping out less popular decks. I, along with everyone else, wanted Wild Nacatl unbanned, but I feel way better about it being unbanned when we still had Shaman.
Another thing that makes me mad is the fact that they're Modern-banning a card currently in Standard, and it's three weeks before a Modern PT, which gives those players going there very little time to playtest without Shaman.
What I want to know is: Should I sell my 4 Deathrite Shaman s? Will its price tank now that it's illegal in Modern?
February 3, 2014 12:50 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #37
As previously discussed, it's legal and played in legacy. It will not tank.
As for the pros going to the pro tour, i'm sure they'll be able to figure something out. I hear that most of them are fairly intelligent.
February 3, 2014 12:53 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #38
The thing about the DRS ban is that it's different from many of the bans we're used to seeing. It's like BBE's banning. The card didn't make the deck or break the format, but it was still a critical support card in several different decks. Removing it from the format will (hopefully) reduce the prevalence of those decks and open up more possibilities for the meta.
@CarteroOfTheOrzhov: I addressed that earlier in this thread and in an economics thread, but the short answer is "not unless you want to sell them."
February 3, 2014 12:57 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #39
They want Blue in control is my speculation. No matter what, Blue seems to get everything in terms of top tier decks now a days. I came to (Maybe a biased) conclusion. They just want to see long controlled games. They like seeing games that go for 100 turns (Exaggerated of course!) They like counterspells and bouncing and fields being wiped. I mean how many UWR/UW/UB/WUB do we see everywhere? A lot. Hell half the time I ever play it's against some form of blue control. In total and maybe not a popular opinion i'd like to see something like Delver of Secrets Flip or possibly even Sphinx's Revelation hit the hammer. Give us Midrange people a shot will ya wizards?
February 3, 2014 1:12 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #40
@VampireArmy: Your opinion is quite biased. Modern is not meant to be a 20+ turn-per-game format. Blue doesn't get screwed because blue is honestly not as powerful as everyone thinks it is. Control only makes up 20-25% of the format. Jund and affinity both put plenty of heavy pressure on it.
Also, midrange is better in Modern than in any other format. You get Tarmogoyf , Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , Liliana of the Veil , and plenty of other tempo-oriented, medium-cost power cards. Midrange/aggro make up almost half of the format.
February 3, 2014 1:19 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #41
Maybe my problem does lie a bit with how much those things cost but idk i've seen more mill and control decks in my entire 8 years of playing the game than anything else ever. I've played in a few different states and online and it all seems to be the same to me. Counter, bounce, draw blah :/ i don't mean to say these types of things shouldn't be in the game and they HAVE banned some overly OP blue cards I just feel like this was a punch to the gut to a lot of players out there who build a lot of different decks. For example, I ran 4 DRS in my 4 color burn deck. It did a lot of work, yes but even if I didn't see one the entire game, it wouldn't mean my deck failed. I feel like in most decks, not seeing 1 DRS didn't mean the end of the world which says something about the card. Gah idk man. I don't even run him in my modern deck (my main baby that is) I just want a deck that can beat out all the control decks out there I encounter and he was a good bet to do it
February 3, 2014 1:25 p.m.
Deathrite has never been 30 and won't lose it's value. It's still a staple in this thing called legacy. (Look at mind sculptor) And zen fetches will not lose there value cause of DRS being banned. That's insane! They are way better in legacy then modern and are very much played in any 2+ color deck other then hate bears and affinity (affinity is somewhat a 5c deck) but if u think so u better ditch all your zen fetches to me for $20 each. I think Jund will find another card to replace it. what makes Jund so good is it's integrity and ability to not rely on a single card, even tho some ppl think so, it could easily play lotus cobra and up its curve, or just throw in blightnings. Either way the deck is not going to die.
February 3, 2014 1:31 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #43
Part of the reason people are outraged at the ban is that they're conditioned to believe a card can only be banned if they're super broken and warp the format. A lot of players don't take into account that cards can have great influence just by being good and not by being broken. DRS is one of those cards. BBE was one of those cards. They help make decks so dominant.
One of the problems WOTC faces with regulating the meta, and especially with reducing Jund's prevalence, is that there's no one card you can ban to neuter the deck, and no one card you can remove without affecting the rest of the format. You have to do damage control and remove a piece that makes the deck as good as it is, but not a card that will destroy the deck or other decks entirely.
February 3, 2014 1:33 p.m.
So from what I can draw from wizards explanation, they banned DRS because he by himself was keeping some decks from being playable at all. Specifically decks that are based on synergies between cards. So for them wanting to increase the diversity of decks played in modern, banning a card that keeps some decks from being played seems like a smart idea. I trust wizards knows what they are doing and if the results of his banning are not what they wanted he'll be unbanned soon enough.
February 3, 2014 1:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik the problem is that jund was only 17% of the meta and melira was 13% at most. That's only 30% of the current meta for modern, these are percentages of top 8 decks at mtgtop8. There wasn't a need to limit the current meta. At the time of BBE's banning jund was around 75% of the meta. Banning a card because it's good and not dominating the meta is such a sad thing for mtg.
WoTC is trying to change the meta, but the fact is they should have said that straight out on this ban, not make it so a good card is banned because it's good.
February 3, 2014 1:41 p.m.
Fairy fairy everywhere...here in Tuscany we used to say "Poggio e buca fa pari". When the meta will be full of fairies they'll ban another time bitterblossom...because now all deck play that. And for newbies like me they've stolen the only competitive card for bg in the last 2 years. Thanks WotC good work.
February 3, 2014 2:14 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #48
Right, they just destroyed Mono Black in modern (No not Devotion BS) DRS was the card that could accelerate Mono-Black to be competitive. It didn't just hurt Rock/Jund/Junk, it weakened soo many decks across the board.
February 3, 2014 3:05 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #49
You can't really ban anything from Jund without weakening other decks. Jund is the epitome of the goodcards.deck approach.
February 3, 2014 3:08 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #50
@Epochalyptik after thinking on what you said to me and looking at nya and the faries i think that maybe other aggro decks might have a shot now. the Goodcards.deck thing is very true because jund is basically all the best midrange colors in one. remove any one card from the skeleton and other decks of that color take a hit. Ya know what? this banning might be a good thing after all. I built a little big nya today and it seems to be going pretty good. Maybe We are all jumping the gun here and should wait for what Journey into nyx gives us.
Brett05 says... #2
I never thought it needed to be banned and am really angry it is. Sure it was good, but it died to all removal and kept other strategies in check. Really really don't know what to do to replace it
February 3, 2014 12:22 a.m.