Deathrite Shaman Banned
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 3, 2014, 12:16 a.m. by Dalektable
I am not a modern player, but seeing this i just had to make a post about it. I'm sure many players are rejoicing while others are shouting curses to the heavens. Where do you stand on the matter? How do you feel about the banning of Deathrite Shaman and do you think it deserved a ban?
Epochalyptik says... #2
@Anacksunamoon: Jund is NOT dead. No offense, but if you think banning DRS kills Jund, you don't know what Jund is. It's literally a pile of advantage-generating cards. There's no overarching combo or theme. It's just 75 good cards.
Jund as we know it may change, but Jund as a deck is not going anywhere.
February 3, 2014 4:53 p.m.
Anacksunamoon says... #3
I understand your point Epochalyptik, see its just that the current Jund midrange is going to have to take a drastic turn now. Bloodbraid Elf Jund was great. We can get along without it, simply add a heavy hitter, accelerant (ie: Birds of Paradise ), someone hard to remove (ie:Thrun, the Last Troll ) or run more control. DRS allowed Jund to survive against decks like American control who's efficiency, graveyard capabilities, and 2-for-1-iness would otherwise destroy the deck. I agree, Jund isn't dead, but the shell that has been run for the longest time is. This is why im terribly frustrated. I have been working my ass of to build a deck as competitive as Jund, it's expensive, and incredibly aggravating that now i am going to have to completely re-adjust my deck. Its hard to play modern on a minimum wage budget and being a full time student. Jund will never die, but i fear the level of midrange in Jund will be significantly less now which begs the question, make it more aggressive and run BoP for accel.? Or make it more controlling by adding the best flavor of removal? But trying to make this deck aggressive... may as well run robots or zoo (Wild Nacatl ), make it more controlling...why not just run American? I am just frustrated because it destroyed my personal value of my deck, and also a fair amount of efficiency and monetary value of my deck...
February 3, 2014 5:07 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
That's understandable. But the monetary value isn't just going to evaporate. All of the cards are still good, and they're still in demand. Pulse and Lili aren't going anywhere, really.
February 3, 2014 5:11 p.m.
Anacksunamoon says... #5
Anyone got suggestions to replace DRS?Here is the list: Anack: Noblesse Oblige. I don't really see Birds of Paradise fitting in the slot, don't particularly need the accel.
February 3, 2014 5:18 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
A couple of things regarding this topic:
- Banning Deathrite Shaman and unbanning Wild Nacatl makes aggro viable. Before, the only Tier 1 aggro deck in Modern was an ailing Affinity, in part due to the fact that Jund was dominant, and aggro decks have very little to no chance against Jund. Wild Nacatl and friends make aggro decks lack diversity, yes, but at least now we HAVE an aggro deck.
- Jund is not dead because of their one-drop being banned. I've heard that "people play the decks with the one-drops". Before, that was Jund. Now, that is Naya aggro shells and Delver. Jund still has plenty of ways to remove important cards from other decks, and (as has been said) a great deal of the deck's potence is in its resilience to getting its creatures killed (or in this case, banned :) ).
- Even though aggro is now very possible, decks like Wild Children can still be dealt with by control decks, which will also see a rise because of the removal of Deathrite Shaman , since control always had a fairly poor Jund matchup.
February 3, 2014 5:43 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #7
I'm not really a Modern player but this does seem kind of ridiculous. When I was dabbling in a Modern Elf deck I specifically left out the fetch lands to not give DRS fodder, and I don't see why other decks can't do the same. I feel bad for people who have invested in playsets of these guys because they're pretty weak in Standard and now their best format has been swept out from under them.
February 3, 2014 8:08 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #8
Not uses fetches?... Dude, I'm going be running a Tri-Color deck, and there's no Heart of the Cards in this game... Well, there is, but it's far, FAR from reliable.
Also, Deathrite Shaman kills so many decks before you even know what you're playing. Nice; Snapcaster Mage , Unburial Rites , Kitchen Finks /Murderous Redcap , Vengevine , Knight of the Reliquary , Storm Deck, and the list goes on...
It's so frustrating to see your deck basically lose turn 1, and any time you spend trying to find removal for this one creature, the opponent has already played 3 more creatures, possibly including another Shaman, because NOBODY runs less than a playset...
I hope I don't sound rude... I just hate going against that card because it shuts down every deck I've ever loved... Except Faeries now. :3 oh I'm building Faeries
February 3, 2014 8:22 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
@Three-Left-Feet: Yeah it's basically mono-Green splashing Blue so fetches seemed unnecessary, not to mention ridiculously expensive for a marginal upgrade over Hinterland Harbor etc. which i already had.
Anyways, after reading through all of the comments, I now realize that DRS won't lose much of its value in all likelihood so that's good news for those who have invested in lots of them. If Wizards really did ban it to change the format in the short term, it seems likely that they would become unbanned at some point in the future.
February 3, 2014 8:33 p.m.
neotokyo23 says... #10
I don't play standard so I don't really care but on the other hand I'm kind of torn if they ban a card from a format just to cripple the top two decks that's not good. on the other hand if it drops the price of zen fetch's hey awesome (for me)
February 3, 2014 10:04 p.m.
I don't play modern yet because I'm focussing on Standard while I build a card base, but I'm really pissed about this too. As someone who has every intention of playing Modern, I feel betrayed by WotC that they would ban a card this early in its life. I mean, it hasn't even rotated from Standard yet and it's 'wrecked' and entire format? C'mon...this is tyranical.
Let's just be honest here and call a spade a spade. These guys have no idea what they're doing when they ban cards. If they did, Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatyl wouldn't be coming back. Period.
February 4, 2014 2:23 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
@texan821: Nobody ever said DRS wrecked Modern. It never warped the format. It just enabled a few decks to be better than the others, and DRS was pulled to reduce their power and prevalence.
Banning DRS and reintroducing Nacatl and BBlossom promotes format diversity.
Regardless of whether you're mad about the ban or not, you have to acknowledge the reasoning behind it. Lots of people are inclined to say "WOTC sucks" or "WOTC doesn't know anything" every time something is banned, but those same people are also rarely inclined to fully consider the situation preceding the ban.
February 4, 2014 2:38 a.m.
SlowHandsZ says... #14
I think the ban is perfectly reasonable. I'm a shaman player and I'm still OK with it. I'll be keeping my playset because I'm hoping to get into legacy but besides that I believe we will see him come back sometime in the future. If not. .. Oh well. Him being gone will make plenty of people happy and angry but in the end it will make for a more fun, diverse, and interesting modern format.
February 4, 2014 5:08 a.m.
I shouldn't leave comments when I'm emotional. I definitely went overboard, but I still feel like the rug was pulled out from under me...and a lot sooner than I was counting on. Like, within the first five months of me playing. Ouch.
I knew something like this would happen eventually, but I just didn't see any card being banned in any format before rotating out of Standard. The people who design, release and ban cards are, without a doubt, much smarter than I am...but I still contend that they are fallable... :/
February 5, 2014 3:08 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
You need only look to Mental Misstep for proof of that, texan821. It was banned pretty rapidly in Modern and Legacy because it simply broke those formats in half.
February 5, 2014 3:16 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #17
While I think their reasons for banning it were silly (to make pod and BGx weaker), I think it was a good thing it was banned. This may allow for new decks to surface, and old strategies to flourish. I feel that we may see a resurgence of DredgeVine decks, which is one of my favorite archetypes, as well as Assault Loam and U/W Tron decks. Gifts Ungiven may find new life in the format, and who knows what else we can see!
I do, however, feel that it was banned at the wrong time. I don't think any one deck was too powerful, or that any of the decks that played it were unbeatable. I also feel that, as a result of this banning, we will see a panic that could well drive people away from playing modern. Everybody is rushing to Faeries and Zoo now, and if one of those decks become "too good" then we may see Bitterblossom or Wild Nacatl get banned again. The way wizards chose to ban these cards is silly, and doesn't actively promote a healthy metagame.
February 5, 2014 4:04 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #18
I'm personally relieved it was banned. I understand the anger over the banning, but everyone needs to calm down. The reasoning behind this ban isn't "silly" or, "dumb". To be frank I find the reasoning to be relatively logical and solid. Deathrite Shaman is a good card. Fact. It is a constant advantage generator. Fact. However, it also has an utter strangle hold on anything that wants to utilize the graveyard. I like my reanimator decks, and I like my control decks. As a UWR Control player Jund is still going to kick my ass seven ways to Sunday, but at least now I might be able to shift into a Gifts Control deck and not worry about every card in my grave being a target from a one drop that can heal, ramp and smack me in the fact. This ban, as well as the unbans allows for greater diversity as it's been stated. It doesn't break Jund, but it will allow for perhaps more competitive play against Jund.
February 5, 2014 8:46 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
"smack me in the fact"
That is probably the funniest thing I'll read today.
February 5, 2014 9:09 a.m.
Everybody keeps on saying they banned it make the decks it was in weaker. That is not at all why wizards said they banned it. #1 they said they thought it was too powerful that it was primarily a mana ramp that stayed relevant all game long. To them that was not okay. #2 Deathrite by himself was keeping some decks from being playable. Specifically decks that involve synergies between multiple cards. I agree with the second reason more than the first, but nowhere have they said that they banned him to make the decks he was in weaker. That could be a side result of his banning, but we can't tell that yet.
February 5, 2014 10:48 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #21
DRS is just a fun card to play. I honestly expect him to be unbanned by next year if not 6 months. I don't know how WoTC works but this card clearly didn't deserve the ban hammer.
I even think it'll pull a Bitterblossom and skyrocket in price once it's unbanned. OOP + single printing + awesome in all aspects = expensive card down the line when unbanned.
February 5, 2014 11:32 a.m.
I decided to run scavenging ooze as replacement for DrS. Idk if you all have seen the spoiler for waste not, but I think ill be dropping scavenging ooze come m15 for that. Heres a fourm about waste not:http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/general/m15-card-waste-not-amazing-for/
February 5, 2014 3:02 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
shameless self plug for a waste not deck.
8RACK w/Waste Not & Bitterblossom Playtest
Modern*
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 126 VIEWSFebruary 5, 2014 7:46 p.m.
Lightning bolt only deals 3 damage to target creature or player, DRS does basically everything in the game that's important. Also, Jund is definitely an Aggro deck, not a midrange.
Mana advantage, unpreventable damage, life gain, 1/2 for 1, hybrid, AND fucking graveyard hate? He was ruining the game, he is bar none the best 1 drop in modern, nothing else comes close. He deserves the ban hammer several times over.
February 6, 2014 9:31 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #25
Or... Even it out by unbanning Mental Misstep :D
No? That's cool too...
February 6, 2014 10:27 p.m.
DRS didnt deserve the ban. Granted he is good, real good, but he can be handled easily. Unbanning Bitterblossom was not called for. I understand that Wizards wants to change the format, but DSR wasnt where it was, and certaintly not bringing back faeries; they are really stupid and bring much more hate than a Deathrite Shaman .He should not be banned.
February 10, 2014 1:12 a.m.
Wasn't too impressed by the ban, and wasn't remotely convinced by the 'reasons' they gave for it.
February 10, 2014 1:50 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #28
Tiktacy, I don't see any Jund players trying to kill their opponents on turn 3. I see them casting a discard spell on turn one, a discard/removal/goyf spell on turn two, and killing everything your opponent does while outvalueing the opponent. If you want an aggro deck, play affinity. Play Zoo. Don't play Jund.
February 10, 2014 11:54 a.m.
Errr right, yes I'm sorry, your right, it's a midrange. Mtgtop8 listed it as Aggro, so I guess I misunderstood the meaning of midrange.
February 10, 2014 12:33 p.m.
I get the feeling only Jund players are mad at the ban. Well, Jund players, and players who have never played against It before.
People just don't seem to understand how good he is until they play against him.
February 10, 2014 12:37 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
If u spent $1600+ on a deck and they just banned a key piece u would be pissed too.
February 10, 2014 12:41 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #32
It's not really a key piece. As someone mentioned before, Jund was a thing before RTR.
February 10, 2014 12:45 p.m.
Not even close to a key piece. DRS is as much of a key piece to Jund as street wraith is to living end. It's a good card, but it can exist without it.
However, unlike street wraith, DRS is oppressive. I have experienced much frustration having to deal with his shenanigans.
Deathrite shaman is basically like a giant dick, if he is yours then it's awesome, but nobody else wants to see it. Way too many people have been putting their dicks on the table and using it to hate on everybody. So, in order to avoid the gay sex orgy of Deathrite scrotums, they banned it. No more DRS, no more dicks on the table, how is this a bad thing?
February 10, 2014 1:11 p.m.
I don't have a traditional jund deck, and I've played against jund before and I'm upset by the ban. I didn't think jund was being oppressive, and removing drs just killed heaps of my janky home brews :'(
February 10, 2014 11:52 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
"Deathrite Shaman is basically like a giant dick, if he is yours then it's awesome, but nobody else wants to see it."
Made me lol.
February 10, 2014 11:54 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #36
that was my point too. he made my mono black deck function. the ban effected a lot more than just jund
February 11, 2014 1:24 a.m.
"Alas, poor Jund! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite value, of most excellent efficiency; he hath borne Top 8's on his back a thousand times; and now, how banned in my imagination it is!"
February 11, 2014 1:11 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #39
You're right, Lightning Bolt shuts down a lot of decks from even being playable in tournaments.
February 11, 2014 2:30 p.m.
I was really surprised to see this banned. It doesn't affect me as far as my decks go, but I know a lot of people that are probably pretty upset about it. It really didn't seem that broken at all. It was used in the most common decks, sure, but it kept a lot of decks in check. I don't think they should have banned this.
February 11, 2014 2:50 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #42
@ Nigrescence and Three-Left-Feet stop being utterly ridiculous. I realize you're overly upset over this ban, but that's no reason to start spewing nonsense.
@ xzzane the versatility of Deathrite Shaman is what caused it's ban. It was a one drop of few weaknesses. It single handedly was a wrecking ball. It was a good card, it wasn't what I consider "broken" however, its existence did prevent a number of decks from doing well when used in tangent with Jund. That's the main reason behind the ban. Wizards what's to shake the format up and hopefully shift the meta a little.
February 11, 2014 9:39 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #43
CanadianSamurai I was joking bud, I'm actually incredibly happy DRS got banned. 4/5 decks I even think about playing have a reliance on the grave, and that card shuts then down basically turn 1.
Granted, now I'm building Faeries, which doesn't need the grave to function, but I'm still happy the card is gone.
My silly comments ( banning Lightning Bolt or unbanning Mental Misstep ) were jokes
February 11, 2014 11:40 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #44
Three-Left-Feet my apologies then. One can never be too careful though, this is the internet.
February 11, 2014 11:42 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #45
I don't understand why you guys are saying they're stupid for banning Deathrite Shaman, and are saying they have no idea what they are doing. They kind of create the cards and made the game.
On my two cents, I feel that Jund will still be a powerhouse in competitive Modern. It wasn't removed from Jund to nerf the best deck, it was removed to create a balance between the archetypes.
February 16, 2014 11:32 p.m.
I was kinda upset that DRS got the shaft just because I was in the process of brewing a BUG mill and he woulda been pretty awesome to get out my big dudes faster and remove a few unwanted cards sure. But BUG mill still works okay.
And honestly there is not much Jund play in my meta so no one really got butt hurt over it. Neither Tron, Soul Sisters, Storm, or Pod require it so... My meta stays strong.
February 22, 2014 4:42 a.m.
Important powerful cards that turn 1 DRS shuts down:
Life from the Loam (and any other dredge cards), Flame Jab , Raven's Crime , Living End , Snapcaster Mage , Reanimated cards, Kitchen Finks , Murderous Redcap , Grim Lavamancer , Eternal Witness , Deathrite Shaman , Tarmogoyf , Scavenging Ooze , Reveillark , Lingering Souls (and any other card with flashback).
On top of all that, he costs one HYBRID MANA and is a 1/2 with multi-color mana acceleration, a life gain engine, and unpreventable life loss(it doesn't even target!). He is the best 1 drop ever printed by a huge margin. The only card that even comes close to DRS is Noble Hierarch , and look at how expensive she became after the ban.
February 22, 2014 1:08 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #48
Ooooooh, Raven's Crime . That's it, I'm going to make modern Pox.
February 22, 2014 7:57 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #49
Pity there's absolutely no other cards that can stop those mentioned, right? The banning was a true travesty~
In naming all those points, you essentially provided the reason for the ban itself. Now DRS won't make up 80% of Modern (eyeballing it here, don't quote me exactly). It's not about making Jund worse, it's about balancing the format. And as mentioned before, Jund was a thing before DRS. Just be more creative and not worry about DRS anymore.
February 22, 2014 10:25 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #50
Actually the 2 life loss from DRS is preventable if u have a DRS yourself or Scavenging Ooze
DRS can exile a spell, then in response u exile the spell first with ScOoze or whatever. If u do it with DRS u'll make the opponent take the life loss instead.
Anacksunamoon says... #1
I know! After Bloodbraid Elf got the hammer jund has not disappeared, but it hasn't been doing nearly as well. But hey 1 or 2 in every top 8 apparently warrants banning one the most inportant utilities in an already struggling deck. Fucking A, ban Path to Exile or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker cause they are two of the most broken cards out there. Fuck off magic, way to destroy the value of my $1600 deck. Now that jund is all but dead other cards like Maelstrom Pulse and Liliana of the Veil are going to depreciate because of lack of play.
February 3, 2014 4:48 p.m.