Extirpate in modern
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 11, 2015, 11:24 p.m. by Alexr1239
Does this card fit in well with an esper deck? I feel like it's good for the mirror match up. Also what happens if someone plays an Extirpate in response to your Extirpate?
Extirpate is pretty fantastic in Modern. Especially in a deck that has hand disruption. You Thoughtseize something out of their hand, then Extirpate it. Poof, all copies are gone. It can't be countered, can't be responded to by something like Snapcaster Mage. Its especially strong against combo. Steal a Scapeshift and its GG.
February 11, 2015 11:36 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #4
I don't like it very much. Extirpate/Surgical Extraction are good against linear combo decks where resolving it usually wins you the game. (Taking a Reanimator decks threats) But using it "for value" (Some random play like hitting a Siege Rhino, or Serum Visions, or something) is a losing endeavor. It's straight card disadvantage, and that's terrible. I only put it in my sideboard for specific combo decks. This is also in legacy, where yard based combo decks are much more powerful.
Given modern's combo decks make much less use of the graveyard, I don't like it in modern. The opportunity to go Thoughtseize -> Extirpate is cute, but that requires a second card to make it playable, which isn't where you want to be. By the time a Scapeshift is in the yard, you've already lost usually.
February 11, 2015 11:58 p.m.
I guess to clarify, I was assuming it would be used as a side board card. It probably shouldn't be main boarded. Having said that, I still think its extremely useful against any combo decks. OP mentioned Esper in particularly, so I'm assuming he's talking about a control style. In that case, you're probably running 4 Thoughtseize and at least another 2 Inquisition of Kozilek. That gives you plenty of opportunity to get a key combo piece into the graveyard, and then Extirpate it. Personally, I run it in 8Rack in the sideboard, and its been great. Again, I have tons of discard, which makes it easier.
February 12, 2015 12:15 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #6
Well you're running 8 Rack, so does it actually matter what's good in that deck? lol
February 12, 2015 12:20 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #10
Now now, I sleeve up my Tarmogoyfs one at a time just like everyone else.
February 12, 2015 12:30 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #12
Yeah. Figures I made the decision to put in the time and effort to trade up into good cards rather than just play bad decks all the time.
February 12, 2015 12:34 a.m.
Nah, you're just an elitist prick who looks down on everyone else. Having Goyfs doesn't make you special.
February 12, 2015 12:45 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #14
That's the thing though, you're right. There's nothing special about playing good decks, it's just the logical choice. That's why it's so baffling to see people play 8 Rack lol
February 12, 2015 12:58 a.m.
All that Twin and Bloom Titan must just be driving you crazy huh? And don't even get me started on Scapeshift. If only everyone just stuck to playing the good cards...
February 12, 2015 1:03 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #16
Driving me crazy? Why? I like that the format is varied. It's fun to sit across from someone and play a challenging game of Magic. That's what you get when people play good decks, fun games. There are so many different configurations of "the good cards", and yet people still refuse to play them. It's so weird.
February 12, 2015 1:08 a.m.
wait if you can't Extirpate in response to an Extirpate then it's a race to see who plays the card the quickest? I thought magic eliminated that type of play
February 12, 2015 1:11 a.m.
Hmmmm. So Goyf is a good card. Scapeshift is a good card. But Lili's not a good card. And Thoughtseize definitely isn't a good card. Interesting perspective you have.
February 12, 2015 1:16 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #19
Those cards are both very good. They weren't (In Modern) until the bannings took place, but now they're good again. Liliana less so, as the prevalence of Lingering Souls and Wilt-Leaf Liege is on the rise.
They're both good in Legacy (Again, post bannings) though. Cards are good in context, as metagames dictate, format dependent. Some cards though, like The Rack, are usually always bad lol
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? You seem pretty annoyed. Why don't you channel that frustration into motivation to get into a better deck. You'll enjoy Magic more when you're able to compete on a higher level.
February 12, 2015 1:22 a.m.
I'm not annoyed at all. I'm actually pretty amused. My point is simply that you're an arrogant prick. You get a rise out of baiting people, and you think you're better than everyone else. That kind of attitude is cute on the internet. In the real world, not so much. You are the epitome of what people hate about the Magic community (or certain segments anyway). But go on, live your sad little life. And for your information, I happen to own Goyfs, Lilis, Bobs, JTMS, and plenty of other high value cards. I choose to play 8Rack (when I'm not playing one of my other more competitive decks) because its fun and its different. At this point, I'm unsubbing and heading off to bed. Enjoy your Goyfs.
February 12, 2015 1:33 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #21
Extirpateing a Lingering Souls Liliana of the Veil just +1'd is pretty good.
I don't think it's fair to try to rag in some one for their deck choice. I mean first do u know how fun it is to win at high level play with lower tier tools? It's awesome & proves my second point. It's about what works for the player, surely kmcree has won enough games to want to continue playing his deck so what's wrong with that?
/x isn't exactly an auto win deck, it gives u fair match ups with the tools to win but winning comes down to the player.
February 12, 2015 1:33 a.m.
zyphermage says... #22
Just ignore Turbo honestly, his name says it all. Like who makes a name like that?
February 12, 2015 1:34 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #24
This guy says that I think I'm better than everyone else, then gets all high and mighty about ditching the conversation when he's called out on being so booty blasted. ("Live your sad little life"? Come on man, be real) Whatever helps you sleep at night man.
"It's ok to make this terrible deck decision because I'm actively turning down better options!" No, that just makes your choice even worse lol Pro tip: It doesn't make you look very smart if you brag about making poor decisions.
February 12, 2015 1:39 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #25
But I do agree with (someone's) sentiment that B/Gx isn't an auto win deck. I don't mean to imply that by picking up a good deck you'll just win. Higher tier decks often do have more play to them though, and by learning to play them you'll expand your skill set as a player, and also have more powerful tools to work with. It's a win/win. There's no reason to hobble yourself by playing with subpar decks. You're just competing on a far worse level than everyone else, which will affect your ability to grow as a player, in addition to affecting your ability to win.
February 12, 2015 1:42 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #26
Kheru Spellsnatcher can steal your Extirpate.
End of conversation.
February 12, 2015 1:43 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #27
I think if someone flipped up their Spellsnatcher in response I'd just concede on the spot.
There's playing with bad cards and playing bad decks, but this person is clearly on the next level that I can't compete. They know things I couldn't possibly comprehend.
February 12, 2015 1:45 a.m.
zyphermage says... #28
Do you go on every deck on this site and tell people they are not playing what you want them to play? What do you think this site is even for? There are already websites that already have top tournament result lists.
February 12, 2015 1:45 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #29
No I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that people on this site have no idea what they're doing and ignore any and all advice unless it's just pats on the back about how great they are. Every once in a while I engage people in conversation and wouldn't you know it, they still have no idea what they're talking about lol
February 12, 2015 1:46 a.m.
zyphermage says... #30
So if I copy paste your paragraphs does that mean I get to know what I am talking about?
February 12, 2015 1:49 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #31
Yes! I mean it's a pretty high standard to reach, but I know everything right? Just follow me, friend, I'll get you to where you need to be.
February 12, 2015 1:51 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #32
People seem to value my opinion unnecessarily highly though. Otherwise I see no reason why they'd get so annoyed when I disapprove of what they do. I think the core of the issue is that people need to stop feeling a need to defend their actions in the face of such meaningless scrutiny. If it really bothers you that one person online doesn't like your deck, you have larger issues.
February 12, 2015 1:54 a.m.
But i will add that decks are good based on the Meta they are played in...and every LGS is far from the same.
February 12, 2015 1:59 a.m.
Back because I was tagged. You lead a sad and pathetic life because all you do is mock people and troll on the internet. I've seen you around here plenty of times. You're just a generally rude and self absorbed person. Nobody was asking for a pat on the back. You just jumped into a thread to insult people. And for the record, the only Modern deck you have listed is a Glittering Wish deck, which I know you don't actually play since you only play good decks. So why don't you post your actual list? Maybe because you'd rather pretend you're better than everyone else by tearing apart their decks? If you don't have to guts to open your own work up to criticism, then you really have no basis to criticize others.
February 12, 2015 2:02 a.m.
TurboFaggoot you really know how to troll the fuck out of someone. I'm laughing my ass off at how hard he was raging. 10/10
February 12, 2015 2:15 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #37
It's ok. You don't have to validate why you came back into the thread. No one cares, or is going to judge you about it.
The disconnect comes from where you think the things I do on this website is "all I do". I'm on here infrequently relative to the other things I do in life. I understand your frustration, but you can't really make a judgment about someone's character, for better or worse, given such a small representation.
The decks I play aren't listed on my profile. (With the sole exception of Duel Commander, as the singleton nature of the format makes it difficult to commit my list to memory) The Glittering Wish deck was just a though experiment I showed to a friend because I thought that card was underplayed at the time and was really good. Then it shot up in price when people played it in Jeskai Ascendancy. Regardless, the posted list on my profile is trash, and I never played it.
It is quite amusing that you went digging in my profile in some attempt to discredit me.
The general ethos of needing to validate yourself before you criticize is just wrong in every field it's ever been applied to. Anyone who has ever tried any creative endeavor (Of which deck building is one) will try and get opinions from every possible resource (Criticism is just one kind of opinion). Even people without the most expertise will have something to add. The more voices you get, the more feedback you have, the more viewpoints you have to consider, which leads to a clearer direction on where to go next. You weigh the importance of each opinion given how knowledgeable the source, but even somewhat ignorant feedback is a valuable tool. You'd be a fool to turn down free help.
I play Jund in Legacy and Junk in Modern, since you're so curious.
I'd also like to note I jumped into this thread to give my opinion about Extirpate, to help OP who was asking for advice. Dunno what you're talking about.
February 12, 2015 2:19 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #38
Can you all stop fucking around and stay on topic?
February 12, 2015 2:25 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #41
@Alexr1239: You still have to follow priority. You can't just play something randomly. You need to have priority in order to cast any spell. Further, once you announce a spell, you finish the casting process before players regain priority, so you can't cut someone off from casting something.
February 12, 2015 2:34 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #42
Well you did pose your post in the form of a question. So that kind of reply shouldn't be too surprising.
February 12, 2015 2:36 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #43
I never said I was surprised.
Stay on topic or don't reply.
February 12, 2015 2:40 a.m.
Extirpate is good against combo decks but pretty awful everywhere else. A lot of the time Extirpate doesn't remove anythign from the opponents hand and therefore it does not actually remove their resources. They still have as many things in play, and as many cards in hand as they did before. Agaisnt a generalised strategy like BG/x or Zoo, it's not fantastic because those decks don't depend on a single card. It's unlikely to net you actual tangible card advantage and it has a limited effect on the game. Agaisnt combo it can be stifling because it basically makes the deck not work. However if you want to beat twin you have like Torpor Orb and Illness in the Ranks that also double duty and destroy other decks too. It's better to go for broader options that just generally stop strategies than to go for a card that literally only stops some combo decks (and not all of them).
Thoughtseize never stopped being a good card. Even with Treasure Cruise around it still pulled weight. The reason for this is that most of the cruise decks ran a lot of cantrips, but only a few wincons. It was therefore easy for a Thoughtseize player to take away your delver or swiftspear and leave you with a hand of Serum Visions and Gitaxian Probe. Due to the way these decks were structured (many cantrips, few wincons), hand attack cards were actually pretty great. Yes it is true that the opponent could draw into many more cards, it was unlikely that they'd draw into more cards that actually mattered. Even Thoughtseizeing a bolt is a net gain of 1 life overall. It's useful. It does things. It always did. On the other hand Liliana certainly did lose effectiveness. She's back now to a 3-4 of, but is on shaky ground. Still a good attrition engine though, and a card you want around in the long game. There's a reason she's gone from $60 to $90 in a few days - she's worth buying.
8Rack isn't a fantastic deck, but it's really not that bad. It has top 8ed major events on multiple occasions. Part of the variety and fun of modern is to take T2 decks and try to make them T1. Merfolk for example, is pretty close and often skirts the boundary between the two, depending on the meta. Hatebears too can often come very close to being top tier, but not quite reach it. People play magic to have fun. Some people have fun by playing wacky strategies that are super hard to pull off. 8Rack is one of these. Other people play magic just to have fun from winning. Those guys sleeve up their goyfs and their Lilis. Honestly, as a Spike, I'm thankful for the guys that play T2 decks because 1) it's usually an easier win for me and 2) I actually enjoy playing against a variety of decks - it's more interesting than only playing against Twin, Scapeshift, Tron, and BG/x every.single.match
February 12, 2015 5:37 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #48
I disagree Chiefbell, I think Thoughtseize was much worse during the Cruise era. It still had functionality, but the type of strategy that wanted Thoughtseize (Attrition or Control) were both very bad are the time. Cruise was best in combo or tempo decks, and once those kind of decks are able to pull ahead or keep up on the CA front, there's no incentive to play Attrition or Control, or really any kind of midrange. You mention that the decks had very few wincons, which is relatively true, but then you go on to point out how they draw so many cards. How likely is it that they only draw air? The whole point of drawing so many cards is expressly to find the few wincons in the deck. And because they're all so cheap, it's so easy to go cantrip -> threat on one turn. Thoughtseizing after the fact had some value, but it was just a much worse strategy during that era. The card still had text on it, but that text was just much less relevant than it is now. All the cards in the top decks were interchangeable.
I mean, just compare the amount of main deck Thoughtseizes before and after Cruise was banned. Some decks that were obstinate about playing black (Which was the real bad idea at the time) still ran them, because they had play against combo, but that doesn't mean they weren't bad.
And yeah, I get that, I just can't fathom why someone would enter a tournament and not try their hardest to win. It seems contradictory, no? To hobble your chances knowingly from the start, but still dump entry fees down the drain.
February 12, 2015 8:57 a.m.
"And yeah, I get that, I just can't fathom why someone would enter a tournament and not try their hardest to win. It seems contradictory, no? To hobble your chances knowingly from the start, but still dump entry fees down the drain."
TurboFagoot: I feel like many people would ask the same question about Spikes. Why would you pay thousands of dollars on cardboard? Budget and card availability are huge factors for many people. Simply put, I can't afford the Goyf's and Liliana's of the world. That said, I still play in competitive tournaments.
Why?
Because it's fun! Magic, at it's core, is a game. Games are meant to be fun. It's different for everyone, but for me, going to a tournament is about having a good time playing a game that both me and my friends love.
I'm not saying this is how you need to approach magic this way, I understand not everyone does, but you do need to respect the people that do.
February 12, 2015 9:11 a.m.
Abzan still had over 10% stake in the meta with the Cruise decks being around so attrition strategies were doing ok. In fact most of the attrition decks had very good games if they could hold on until they landed rhino. It was a very all or nothing time for midrange. I agree that Thoughtseize was somewhat devalued but the control decks still had a relatively fine time. It was far from being a bad card. Your average delver deck was running 10 creatures (delver, swiftspear, pyro), and 4 lightning bolts. Their chance of drawing into one of those creatures is 1 in 6, so yes there was a high chance that they would draw into air haha. Obviously burn is another story. This compounded with the value you got from removing one. Getting rid of a delver was getting rid of 10% of their creature wincons - more in some cases. In many ways discard became more important. That's the weird thing about the meta. Sure they could have endless card advantage but because they were only playing 10 threats that could stick to the board a lot of the time a delver deck would have to cantrip multiple times in a single turn to find what they want. Also with decreased counterspells in that time all your removal became much more successful. I played BG/x throughout the period and had a very favourable delver matchup. It would be wrong to say that all midrange struggled. BGW rose to prominence at first in this era, and has since increased further. Believe in the rhino.
Yes the maindeck thoughtseizes went down, but I think that was due to the prevalence of aggro in general, not because it wasn't a valuable card. You'll notice that the numbers of inquisition of kozilek stayed high. Discard itself wasn't undervalued but burning your life total away was. I maintain that Thoughtseize was somewhat devalued but just not a bad card at all. I kept 3 maindeck, down from 4 and felt fine with it. I think the life loss from thoughtseize is a fair deal most of the time, but in an aggro meta it is a heavy toll. The cards still damn useful, you just would rather have inquisition in some cases. That's ok though - it has a very definite, and strong purpose.
Some people dont play to win, they just want to have fun. Doesnt make sense to a Spike, but then not everyone is one.
Ohthenoises says... #2
You CAN'T Extirpate in response. That's kind of the point of split second...
February 11, 2015 11:28 p.m.