How does Esper beat Tron?
Modern forum
Posted on March 20, 2015, 3:38 a.m. by GoofyFoot
Title is pretty self-descriptive. I have Thoughtseize, Rain of Tears, and even some Fulminator Mage. any other ideas for me? I also have Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage, which both seem terribly sub par.
JexInfinite says... #3
I don't think you do. If you are playing Esper Control, then you actually just do nothing.
If Esper Geist, you win by outracing and using a sideboard really well.
March 20, 2015 3:52 a.m.
While disruption is nice to contain Tron's explosives draws, there is no silver bullet. Its more important to be backing up disruption with a clock than trying to overboard a bunch of hate cards. Tron will happily crush everyone in the late game if you let it.
Thoughtseize and Fulminator Mage are fine. The others I wouldn't ever bring in against them. Rain of Tears can't beat down and threaten their lands, if you want land denial Spreading Seas is much better if you can back it with a threat. Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage don't really impact the match-up that much, in addition to offering zero protection against natural Tron draws.
March 20, 2015 4:04 a.m.
If you can land Stony Silence early it can be very effective, stopping Expedition Map, Chromatic Star/Chromatic Lantern, Oblivion Stone, Mindslaver, Relic of Progenitus, and all sorts of other cards that pop up now and then. However, if you're too late it's basically dead.
March 20, 2015 7:42 a.m.
Pithing Needle helps, I don't actually know to what extent. Ghost Quarter is definitely good, at least.
March 20, 2015 7:45 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #8
Use Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Esper Charm to strip their hand, maybe slow them down with Disenchant from the board. You should run around three Tectonic Edges (maybe Ghost Quarter if you're that worried about facing Tron) in your main.
Just cycle/strip away their threats via Vendilion Clique and discard, and then sit on countermagic like Cryptics, Remands, and use Snapcaster to rebuy them while crashing in with Lingering Souls tokens and Cliques to stay ahead on board.
As said before, Fulminator Mage and Stony Silence are both good. You could try Rain of Tears. Spreading Seas is also very good.
March 20, 2015 8:48 a.m.
You just....counter their stuff......
Control has a really good early game matchup against tron - until they cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. At which point control pretty much folds.
Therefore you do two things - sit on counter magic, and disrupt their mana base.
March 20, 2015 8:58 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #10
Path to Exile is your best friend in that match-up, no Wurmcoil Engine tokens for you!
March 20, 2015 12:50 p.m.
I wouldn't rely on any removal spells because karn is a PW
March 20, 2015 3:26 p.m.
So what would you say to Rain of Tears vs Fulminator Mage? I understand the beats are real, but I do have a set of Snapcaster Mage in the board to make rain twice as relevant. I could run multiples of each too, however I only own 2 fulminators.
March 20, 2015 5:27 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #14
I don't know on that one... How often do you plan to Snap back a Rain of Tears? If it would be your first pick to flash back from the graveyard, then yes, run those. If not, then maybe the damage that Fulminator could represent is more relevant.
March 21, 2015 2:06 p.m.
I've brooded over it, and I'm adding a diverse combo of stuff for my SB. Specifically 2 Rain of Tears, 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Pithing Needle, 2 Negate, and 2 Trickbind. Thanks for the help guys!
March 21, 2015 2:48 p.m.
DAFFY-DOOM says... #16
Lol this is interesting, stony silence, and blood moon sucks against rein and I run esper tron so I speak from experience.
March 22, 2015 11:24 p.m.
@Krinn got any suggestions for me? It's definitely my worst matchup as of right now.
March 22, 2015 11:29 p.m.
DAFFY-DOOM says... #19
Well there are some things you can do, such as Pithing Needle that shuts down karn or though it's a high cost Stain the Mind it's good against removal of either Iona, Shield of Emeria or Platinum Angel. But land hate is really important. Whenever someone destroyed one of my three urza lands I get screwed.
March 22, 2015 11:39 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #20
@Krinn
The reason that people have been suggesting Stony Silence is because the most popular build of Tron (
Tron) they color fix and draw through use of artifacts like Chromatic Star and Chromatic Sphere, and use other artifacts like Expedition Map to find important lands (aka, the remaining Tron pieces and Eye of Ugin) along with Oblivion Stone to keep the board clear. Thus, Stony Silence is pretty good against this version because it hoses half of their maainboard.
tldr; Stony Silence is the house vs. Tron, not-so-much the other ones.
March 23, 2015 8:31 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #21
Also, Krinn, do you have your Esper Tron list posted? I'd love to see it, as I haven't seen one in those colors before. =D
March 23, 2015 8:33 a.m.
Yeh Esper tron is bloody weird. Are you sure it's not just Esper control splash tron win conditions?
March 23, 2015 8:42 a.m.
Esper tron isn't really a thing IMO... theres UW Gifts tron that splashes a singular Watery Grave to hard cast the singleton Unburial Rites as a "just in case" back up plan. But in my experience, when the list tries too hard to expand into black the deck starts to crumble under the weight of needing colors while still trying to cast very mana intensive spells.
MollyMab says... #2
Remand is your best friend. You basically want to deny them the lands, so thoughtseize away maps and scrying, counter their dudes with Remand to buy time and be able to put a strong clock on them. Are you playing Esper Junk, Esper Delve, Esper Teachings or what?
March 20, 2015 3:51 a.m.