how exactly does a goyf deck work?
Modern forum
Posted on June 9, 2014, 8:20 a.m. by tyforthevenom
i don't get how you'd go about getting a goyf pumped up without any negative when they inneviably cc it
tyforthevenom says... #3
i'm asking for an explanation on how to play goyf deck
June 9, 2014 8:50 a.m.
Goyf isn't the focus of the deck, He is just a good, very cheaply costed beater, that is on curve for them.
For example, in the deck you play fetches and discard spells. Lets say you go turn 1, fetchland, fetch a land, cast a discard spell. You have land, sorcery in the graveyard already. Lets say you take a creature, and you now have 3 types in graveyard. Goyfs is now a 3/4 for 2 mana who can grow.
June 9, 2014 8:54 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #5
tbh i don't see which part makes no sence, the part where i say i don't understand or the part asking for an explanation
June 9, 2014 8:54 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
Turn one, crack your fetch, untapped shock, Thoughtseize - Land and Sorcery
Turn two, Goyf (2/3)
Turn three, lightning bolt their guy - Instant and Creature, swing with a 4/5 goyf and win the game.
June 9, 2014 8:58 a.m.
I really tried to re-read every word, and it still made no sense:
"without any negative" - negative can mean so many things, I do not know where to start.
"inevitably cc it" - this is not a MOBA.
Every single Goyf deck is not really focused on him, but uses his mana efficiency. You get, as stated above 3/4 creature on turn 2 that can grow bigger.
June 9, 2014 9 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #8
Cc is global, the police cc'd the riot with tear gas
Without any negative effects, i figured anyone would understand that much with no need for explanation
June 9, 2014 9:49 a.m.
Crazybop09 says... #9
tyforthevenom if you dont think Goyf is powerful enough, I'd switch to Storm Crow better 2 drop beater. Much Storm, Very Crow
June 9, 2014 9:57 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
See, you're misunderstanding the concept of a negative effect. To you, a negative effect seems to be putting a card into a graveyard. To most other people, a negative effect is something that counters itself before resolution, or dies at the end of Main Phase 1.
Putting cards into a graveyard is extremely easy, and it happens just by playing the match. Goyf really doesn't have a negative effect, hence $200.
June 9, 2014 10:03 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
As was said before:
CC is not a term in Magic. It's a term in MOBAs and (occasionally) FPSes. Use Magic phrasing so we actually understand what you mean. Also, I have never heard anyone use the term CC to refer to real life events.
"Without any negative effects" is very, very vague. It could mean without losing your creature. It could mean without getting blown out. Contextualize it.
There's really no such thing as a "Goyf deck." Goyf is an advantage generator - it's a creature that just snowballs as the game goes on, but you don't build around it because it's not worth building around. It grows with time.
June 9, 2014 10:04 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #12
If you purposely put something in the graveyard and then they Doomblade it that is a negative trade
June 9, 2014 10:06 a.m.
Crazybop09 says... #13
That is just the risk of magic, goyf is a big target once it hits the board, but thats why you dont run just 1, you run 4.
June 9, 2014 10:08 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #14
It really isn't, because you can't just put things into the graveyard willy nilly.
If you put something into the yard, you're probably using Thoughtseize or a kill spell to put it there, so there isn't any negative consequence.
June 9, 2014 10:08 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #15
And my point being if your goyf is incapasitated in any way anything you used to pump the goyf have gone to waste
June 9, 2014 10:08 a.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #16
A "goyf deck" doesn't exist. There are many decks that play goyf, but they're not goyf decks. It gets pumped from removal spells, fetches, etc that go on as the game goes longer. It doesn't need to be built around.
June 9, 2014 10:09 a.m.
Dalektable says... #17
Like others have said, you don't purposefully put things into the graveyard. (Unless you're playing dredgevine, and Idk if that deck runs goyf or not) He is just one of the better beaters in the game. Just by playing instants and sorceries you are pumping his power. Kill an opponents creature or make them discard it? He gets bigger. Crack a fetch? Still bigger. Goyf is just one of the most efficient beaters this game has to offer, which is why he holds a 200 dollar price tag and is so heavily played. You don't even have to build around him, you can pretty much throw him into most decks running green. As long as your cracking fetches and casting spells he'll be pretty good.
June 9, 2014 10:12 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #18
InconspicuousPotato everyone at my fnm keeps referring to goyf deck
June 9, 2014 10:13 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #19
I'll direct you to any game of modern that features a jund deck. Just watch that and tell us that Tarmogoyf is bad.
I'll also direct you to Patrick Dickmann's PT deck that splashed a whole color just for Goyf and Scooze.
You're clearly not understanding how top tier magic works if you don't understand how Tarmogoyf is good. Just educate yourself a bit, watch some PT BNG for some assistance.
June 9, 2014 10:14 a.m.
tyforthevenom it feels like your missing that Goyf's look at what's in all graveyards. Not just your own. So while playing your normal game and shooting lightning bolts, casting thoughtsizes and killing your opponents creatures the goyf grows. Your not really doing anything to pump your goyf's. They grow as you play your game normally, and once they hit 3/4 or bigger(normally around turn 3) then there are no really good answers to the card outside of Path to Exile because it will be larger then most players spot removal can handle as well as being larger then their creatures.
It's a great card, even if it's overpriced like so many other cards in modern right now. It's still one of the best creatures in the modern format, and one of the better in Legacy.
June 9, 2014 10:30 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #21
At no point did i ever say goyf is bad, but the way people around me keep referring to "goyf deck" i was wondering how it would work.. Please quote me on a point where i said its bad
June 9, 2014 10:30 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #22
Again, "Goyf decks" don't exist. You don't waste resources pumping Goyf up (except maybe in some fringe cases). Goyf is meant to be a cheap, powerful, self-sufficient creature. It's fire-and-forget. It grows on its own while you're playing your deck as you normally would. You're not supposed to just fling spells and cards out there solely to grow the Goyf.
June 9, 2014 10:47 a.m.
"And my point being if your goyf is incapasitated in any way anything you used to pump the goyf have gone to wasteJune 9, 2014 10:08 a.m."
Your saying that its bad because you have to work for it to grow, and that you would have wasted cards if the goyf ever dies. Everyone here is trying to explain to you that you don't need to work for it to grow and be good.
What we are trying to clarify for you is that a goyf is just a really good creature thats way undercosted because it will not matter if your playing goyfs or not. You will be doing the same things regardless; ie killing opponents creatures, burning them, using your card draw spells, stripping their hand of what you conceive to be the biggest threat. There is no difference between how you play your other cards with a Tarmogoyf in play or a Grizzly Bear. The only difference is that one is a cmc2 4/5 and the other is a cmc 2/2.
It's just a great creature, it's not a deck on it's own. But it complements any list it's in by just being extremely good at attacking or blocking. It's a creature that demands attention from your opponent, and that will in turn draw resources from them so that they will have a harder time handling your main plan, what ever that might be. if your friends are talking about goyf decks as a thing then I'd recommend you asking them to explain it to you. Because I have no idea what they are talking about, since in my experience playing goyf's are normally just a backup plan that sometimes wins you the game and other times just drains your opponents hand of removal or counter spells.
June 9, 2014 10:50 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #24
I understand that now Epochalyptik but before asking i was thinking it was used in some form of simic self mill deck using Mulch and similar spells aswell as ways to make goyf unblockable and untargetable possibly with Laboratory Maniac in there to prevent backfire from running out of cards
June 9, 2014 10:52 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #25
Jojja that quote is completely misunderstood by you, the cards in the graveyard have gone to waste, 0 points try again you got 2 more lives
June 9, 2014 10:54 a.m.
You keep saying that the cards in the graveyard have gone to waste but they haven't.
There are two reasons for this -
1). Obviously you cast the cards. Thoughtseize is in your graveyard because you cast it. That's no a waste because you forced a discard.
2). Even if one goyf dies then next one you play will be as big as the last. The next goyf you play will see all the cards in the graveyard and instantly be a 3/4 or 4/5.
June 9, 2014 10:59 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #27
The cards in the graveyard shouldn't have gone to waste. Ideally, they're in the graveyard because you used them to do what's written on them. If you're just throwing cards away to feed Goyf, you're doing it wrong.
The idea of milling yourself to feed a Goyf, then making the Goyf unblockable or something is convoluted. It can be done, sure, but it's a waste of Goyf's potential.
June 9, 2014 11:01 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #28
I wanna clear up a misunderstanding, before i asked i knew Tarmogoyf was a potential 8/9 for 2 mana but i wanted to understand how its used
June 9, 2014 11:02 a.m.
You don't run goyf in a self-mill deck. He's typically seen in jund, which is red, green, black. You'll have creatures (such as goyf), planeswalkers (such as Liliana of the Veil ), you'll have instants (such as Abrupt Decay ), you'll have sorceries (such as Thoughtseize ), and lands (such as Verdant Catacombs ). That means that a late game goyf will be 5/6. Every goyf you play in late turns will be a 5/6 for 2 mana.
June 9, 2014 11:02 a.m.
I think the biggest misunderstanding here is that you haven't read/soaked in the part in Goyf's rule text where his P/T is equal to the number of card types in ALL graveyards, which is why you don't need to put yourself at a disadvantage (in your examples, self milling) to get a benefit from him. You can force a discard/kill an opponent's creature/let them throw instants and sorceries at you and you'll STILL make Tarmogoyf grow, which is why he doesn't have a specific deck moulded over him - he fits into any deck running green because he just grows over the course of a match, regardless if you intentionally try to make him grow or not.
Again. ALL graveyards.
June 9, 2014 11:41 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #33
we cleared that up a while ago, so please, let the cow rest in peace and stop milking it it's dead
June 9, 2014 11:55 a.m.
I think if you wanted to know how Tarmogoyf
worked in a deck then you should have probably looked into what kind of decks are running him first. You would have understood what everyone was telling you much easier if you were at least slightly aware of what you were asking about. Explaining to you how the different parts of the deck work is completely pointless if you don't even know what the deck is in the first place.
June 9, 2014 12:11 p.m.
tyforthevenom. Sir, your telepathic helmet seems to be in need of calibrating. I can't receive the home brewed decklist you seem to have in mind when posting, I have adjusted my antennas but there still seems to be some problems on your end of the transmission. Could you possibly post a written decklist or a quick rundown of this Goyf deck you are speaking of so that I and the other chaps can assist you with your questions on said decklist that you so are cryptically referring to in your posts?
June 9, 2014 5:15 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #37
Jojja there's nothing wrong with my telepathic helmet, there's no deck list i was enquiring as to whether there was a deck specifically for goyf, there isn't.
June 9, 2014 5:25 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
"we cleared that up a while ago, so please, let the cow rest in peace and stop milking it it's dead"
Well, we are all sorry for trying to help explain the card's uses. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Making a Tarmogoyf big doesn't do much if you can't put your opponent in a position where they can't block or kill it. Jund tries to remove all of their cards, while aggressive Goyf decks will just try to beat you down as quickly as possible. Making it unblockable for a turn gets 4-6 damage through, which isn't close to enough.
It's just big. Really big.
June 9, 2014 5:28 p.m.
thispersonisagenius ironic name, i was stating that at the 2 fella's who happen to be spamming
June 9, 2014 6:06 p.m.
DovahWalrus says... #43
Remember kids, goyf is only for simic self mill and is bad and get cc'd!
June 9, 2014 11:12 p.m.
DovahWalrus says... #44
goyf deck @InconspicuousPotato taking this to my next fnm maybe even a open.
June 9, 2014 11:27 p.m.
Don't tease someone because they don't know how a card works........
Nobody can know everything.
June 10, 2014 4:09 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #46
ChiefBell it's ok, not everyone can grow older than 3 years old
June 10, 2014 5:22 a.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #47
The problem with that @DovahWalrus is that the deck you linked doesn't exist. I can't find a good meme for that so I'll let someone else do the meme.
June 10, 2014 8:25 p.m.
DovahWalrus says... #48
Oh I made it just deleted it recently so no feeling would be hurt it was 100 goyfs and some golgari grave troll and some islands
June 10, 2014 9:06 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #49
Oh ok. It was missing Battle of Wits though.
June 10, 2014 10:16 p.m.
DovahWalrus says... #50
Well its a fair deck, I dont like infinite combos with wits and storm pro
Boza says... #2
This does not make sense, what are you asking? Please restate this...
June 9, 2014 8:35 a.m.