How to Midrange without Tarmogoyf (Gerry Thompson)
Modern forum
Posted on July 18, 2015, 12:15 p.m. by Epochalyptik
I don't play anymore let alone play Modern, but I figured some of you Modern junkies might be interested in finding ways around the most expensive staple in the format.
Gerry Thompson posted an article about playing midrange without Goyfs over at SCG yesterday.
That deck looks super fun. I love how many creative ways you can take a midrange deck in modern these days.
July 18, 2015 1 p.m.
Mardu is pretty legit. Bit more control heavy than Jund or Abzan I would think.
July 18, 2015 1:18 p.m.
I've been playing green without Goyfs since I had started playing modern. It's not worth its 150$ tag, especially since it's vulnerable to fucking DOOM BLADE! kill your most expensive card with a 5 cent common. Now, sure, Blade isn't played in modern, but you get my point. It's not worth it. I like killing them all day over playing them. :)
July 18, 2015 2:33 p.m.
Been playing this for a few weeks now and I absolutely love it!
July 18, 2015 3:13 p.m.
BryanAnthony - An efficient way around goyf isn't to play green without goyf. Like it's almost never an optimal solution.
July 18, 2015 3:47 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
On the subject of these lists. I have played a list extremely similar to the Pyromancer mentor one and found that it really seems to want to be what grixis delver already is
July 18, 2015 3:58 p.m.
BryanAnthony Are they worth $150 dollars? I didn't think so at first, until the first time I got my face beat in by them in legacy. Those fuckers get huge quick, and for only a two mana investment, they are insane and definitely worth their price tag.
July 18, 2015 4:11 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #10
Interesting deck lists. Modern Mardu looks really fun.
July 18, 2015 5:05 p.m.
except i play green without goyf, and still kick mucho butt. its a great creature, but I just can't justify, and cannot be sold on playing it. For 150$, it's just ridiculous. It is cardboard, and isn't truly worth that. It's all a gimmick essentially. 20$ is still pushing it for me, but luckily I only need 1-of's of cards at that price. Sure, i play Lily, but I don't own any. I just borrow.
July 18, 2015 5:10 p.m.
I can't even take this thread seriously anymore.
I'm sitting here shuffling my 4 Liliana and 4 Goyfs into Jund praying I play people like this at the next PPTQ.
July 18, 2015 5:47 p.m.
Regardless of whether you buy into goyfs hype or not, it's still important to understand why it's the price it is and also the effect it has on the format. It's a back breaking card with a ton of flexibility and stands as a barrier against many rogue builds that pursue a beat down plan. It needs to be respected.
July 18, 2015 5:49 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #15
Goyf is fucking amazing. I've played enough games here on tapped out (often against your abzan deck ChiefBell) to know how good they are. The thing that pisses me off the most is that 'goyf is almost always out of bolt range. It's obscene how good he is. Not unbeatable, and a topdeck goyf won't save a game you're about to lose, but that fucker is a tank who just. won't. die. Fetch->Disruption, pull a non sorcery->Goyf is already out of bolt range. Land+sorcery+whatever is a 2/3 with no instants in the yard. Goyf deserves his price tag as much as lili and snappy deserve theirs. Personally I think no magic card in modern should cost above 50, but that isn't what the market is. In the market we have, goyf is worth every penny.
Sure, you can kill it. But it takes resources. If left undealt with, goyf will kill you. If dealt with, he absorbs removal that would otherwise hurt your rhinos (same stats plus trample) or your tasigur (same stats plus recursion).
Like Lightning Bolt, the card is often worth splashing for, and you need a damn good reason not to run it if it is in your colors.
But these good reasons exist. Affinity runs Galvanic Blast over bolt because often it is better. Bloom Titan doesn't run goyf because that isn't part of its strategy.
But to not run goyf in a competitive setting, you need to have an excellent reason.
July 18, 2015 7:33 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #16
If you're not playing Goyf because it's expensive, your deck is strictly worse than it could be. By playing a Mardu deck, you are unable to play Goyf, which means you can focus on other midrange cards. Playing the deck because you don't want to spend $600 on Goyfs is fair enough, because you can justify playing a deck without Goyf if it isn't green. Playing green without Goyf is insane, unless you're on infect.
July 18, 2015 8:30 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #17
Decks that use green sources w/o goyf (taken from mtggoldfish modern meta)
Naya Burn: Uses green for wild nacatl, atarka's command, sb destructive revelry. Doesn't use goyf because in a spell slinging sligh deck, you've got better things to do with 2 mana.
RG Tron: Uses green for Sylvan Scrying, ancient stirrings, sb tech. No goyf because your goal is to assemble tron and then cast wurmcoil/karn
Bogles: Uses green for hexproof creatures to create an unbeatable voltron. Goyf doesn't have hexproof and is more of a team player
Podless Pod: Green for melira, finks, combo pieces and general utility. Goyfless because you win by combo, not depth
infect: goyf is waaaay to slow, also doesn't have infect
titan: Goal is mana, lots and lots of mana. Like tron
elves: goyf isn't an elf, therefore doesn't synergize as well as other elves
July 18, 2015 8:55 p.m.
So essentially..... goyf doesn't belong in dedicated combo decks. Yeah, sure.
July 18, 2015 10:10 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #19
In decks like titan and infect, there is no room for a midrange creature.
In decks like twin, where your curve has no acceleration, and your end game is to win by turn 4, goyf is very helpful.
July 18, 2015 11:29 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #20
I'm pro-goyf. I think you need an excellent reason not to run it in your green deck. But I think that infect, titan, elves, and bogles are excellent examples of green decks that don't want goyf
July 18, 2015 11:31 p.m.
The issue isn't whether or not you should play Tarmogoyf in your green deck...the issue is why are you not playing it in your green midrange deck.
The only green midrange deck in Modern that shouldn't play Tarmogoyf are green Tron variants, where the "midrange" is debatable.
Birthing Pod was the other exception, but it has since been banned.
July 19, 2015 5:23 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #22
Yeah it's most optimal to just play goyf in anything green and midrange. That's the reason i avoid green midrange. You can play without it but you're not going to get the same results which is why I'm glad decks like this are starting to exist more and more.
July 19, 2015 5:49 p.m.
Viral_Assassin says... #23
Thank you for posting this! Great read and very helpful!
July 20, 2015 3:03 p.m.
Goyf is good, but if you have the money to buy those cards, gret, you make a ton of money most likely. I still play Lily only because its necessary for my build. People who say "I'd love to best the guy who opposes goyf, etc" you're just cocky. You can be beaten. Goyf is a card, among a million cards. Who cares.
VampireArmy says... #2
I'm happy but sad about this article. Happy that my favorite deck is getting some limelight. Sad that I've worked so long on it just to have someone else beat me to the punch on writting an article about it. I'm working on a primer for this though. Seems like the direction dilemma has been fixed
July 18, 2015 12:30 p.m.