Implications and effectiveness of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in Modern?
Modern forum
Posted on Dec. 30, 2015, 4:23 p.m. by UpperDeckerTaco
What are the implications and what is the effectiveness of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in Modern? I was going through some scenarios where it would play against more of the popular Tier 1 decks in Modern, and I can only find a few ways decks can actually deal with it. For example, of course there is Path to Exile on their turn if they ever +1 him, or there is Maelstrom Pulse, or there is just a bunch of burn spells slewed together. And not many decks play Dreadbore or Hero's Downfall. So my question is, why hasn't anyone started using this 4 mana cost walker yet? He creates dudes, he swings himself, he pumps dudes...In a deck that utilizes, say, Lingering Souls, wouldn't Gideon be nuts in that type of deck? Turn 3, play Lingering Souls. Turn 4, play Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, -4 him, swing for 4. Turn 5, flashback Lingering Souls and cast a removal spell or another threat and now you have a ton of power on the board and a ton of power in the air! Thoughts?
In my modern Abzan token deck in general, I'd sooner run Monastery Mentors, but yeah Gideon as a whole is really enticing.
December 30, 2015 4:31 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #5
He does pretty much nothing the turn he hits the board. On top of that, he costs four mana. Four mana in modern is huge, you have things like Siege Rhino, Splinter Twin, and Restoration Angel, which those three can essentially win games, or turn them in your favor.
I'd much rather play Elspeth, Knight-Errant over Gideon any day, since one of her plus abilities also provides blockers, so she can at least have some defense.
December 30, 2015 5:03 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #8
vampirelazarus how is Gideon not game changing when it hits the table? The turn you play him, you either make a dude to block (Just like Elspeth) or pump your entire team, in which makes your team less susceptible to spot removal during combat whereas if you gave 1 creature +3/+3 and flying, it can simply just get Pathed or Bolted in response. Also, the turn after you play him, you can swing for 5 indestructible with just him and along with your other dudes, it makes blocking very hard for them and it also makes their spot removal taxed. BECAUSE THEY NEED A PATH TO GET RID OF HIM. Think about him in conjunction with Liliana of the Veil. Turn 3, play Liliana, +1, each player discards. Turn 4, play Gideon, 0 Gideon, make a 2/2, -2 Liliana, they sac a dude. Turn 5, -2 Liliana again, they sac a dude, +1 Gideon, swing for 7! Play Rhino, they take 10. All on turn 5 and now you have a planeswalker who is active, a 2/2 body and a Rhino. If you curved perfectly, you could have turn 1 played discard, turn 2 removal, and then you are ahead the entire game. Elspeth can't attack. I understand that a lot of people suggest Gideon Jura is good because he protects your lifetotal and taps down their guys but also, effectively might kill himself. And he doesn't continuously pump out dudes like the AoZ does. Token generation on a stick is beautiful in this format. Bitterblossom for example. I can't see why he isn't being played. If a planeswalker that takes a long time to ULT and only generates 1/1's and only pumps 1 guy 1x a turn is considered good. Then a planeswalker that generates 2/2's and pumps the entire team as well as swing for heavy damage should be damn good as well...right? I know 4 mana is taxing, but modern isn't full of Wastelands and fast combo decks. It lasts for turns upon turns and the decks aren't running 18 lands (unless you're playing Burn), they are running 24-25 lands.
December 30, 2015 5:33 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #9
K, so four mana for an Honor of the Pure. Sounds great.
Four mana for one beater that I can path. Or block.
Four mana for a 2/2 knight. Again, super great. His token generation does nothing to help him, except create a blocker. It doesn't get him out of range of dying to his ult, it doesn't keep him from the danger zone of bolt/snap/bolt. Or a two turn clock with Lingering Souls.
Also, I think you're overestimating how good Bitterblossom is.
I also don't need Elspeth to attack every turn, because if you look at her abilities, I can just swing above you with a buffed goyf, AND increase her loyalty counters in the same go.
December 30, 2015 5:40 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
Ok, so the question here isn't "Why is this card not being played", but it is "Why should this card be played?"
This is a four mana walker that doesn't immediately win the game when it hits the board (For examples of those that do, see karn or ugin). That already makes him kinda bad. He's also double white, which admittedly is the worst color in modern. Another huge turn off. Another thing, there's already a strictly better version in Gideon Jura. Sure, jura doesn't make tokens, but it does effectively the same job (Providing a hard to deal with win condition at four mana) while also giving extra utility against several of the most popular decks in the format.
You play this against literally any T1 deck that isn't jund, and they just kind of laugh at you. Unless you are a dedicated 'Go Wide, but also big' plan (So, unless you're playing the likes of BW Tokens), this card is really bad because it isn't really good. Modern is a good stuff format, and this isn't good enough.
December 30, 2015 5:43 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
DevoidMage jura cost 5.
Other that, you don't need a reason not to play this card. He's a decent 4 drop in the ocean of decent 4 drops. I will say this though, it's not just an anthem. It's an anthem that can't ever be interacted with. Is that good enough? Ehhh do your own testing. Find what's right for you
December 30, 2015 5:57 p.m.
Doesn't do enough, to be honest. As DevoidMage noted, he can be on the board, and most decks in Modern's Tier 1 (or 2) just won't care. His tokens don't bring him closer to his ultimate, his body as an attacker is in Dismember range (as pointed out by GreenGhost, and his -4 is an anthem, which only matters in a deck that's frankly pretty set at the anthem spot (
Tokens, which has Intangible Virtue and Zealous Persecution). Its niche is done better by the likes of Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Sorin, Solemn Visitor the vast majority of the time. It's a Standard all-star, but it's not making it onto the Modern circuit.
December 30, 2015 11:14 p.m. Edited.
GreenGhost says... #14
Granted as a finisher in U/W control I think he could work. That is provided though that U/W control can take off the ground though.
December 31, 2015 12:05 a.m.
Control would rather play Jura, Ojutai, Resto, Collonade, or a ton of other cards. Trust me, it's not gideon that's going to solve U/W's problem. That archetype struggles because it isn't proactive enough.
December 31, 2015 12:29 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #16
So there's been a huge flex of both sides of the story here. This is good stuff.
December 31, 2015 1:59 p.m.
I disagree with a lot of these posts. I've been play testing Gideon on my BW Tokens build. 1 Liliana 1 Sorin and 2 Gideon.
He is almost always a 2 for 1 and if he can't be removed immediately he is devastating. They either have to double bolt or use their spot removal on your tokens to clear the way.
I often don't even need the emblem. But if there's a nasty Izzet Staticaster or a Grim Lavamancer on board it can put the tokens out of range.
Most of the time I have already have tokens on the board but if not I produce one as a blocker. This along with Intangible Virtue is pumping out 3/3 Vigilant tokens every single turn. That's without Lingering Souls or Spectral Procession.
By the second turn the opponent often has maybe 1 card in hand and things like Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek can remove those paths which they've probably already used on your tokens to try and cull them down.
A 5/5 indestructible can close down the game fast. Or if you're really worried about Path to Exile and you're on top deck mode you just pump out tokens every turn and take over that way.
January 2, 2016 12:56 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #18
Eat it everyone who said Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is bad in modern! He's featured in a B/W tokens build which is currently 7-0. Turns out, the anthem effect makes a ton of difference. Also, the fact you can just straight beat down if need be is relevant.
January 9, 2016 6:41 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #20
GreenGhost it's currently being played at an SCG Open and as far as I know 10-0-1. Since it's currently being played, the deck list hasn't been posted yet. I expect them to be posted tomorrow or later tonight.
Arvail says... #2
BW tokens uses Tarkir's Sorin to a much better degree. They've also got much better options in the forms of 2-drop anthems. Control prefers jura if they ever were to use a variant of that guy. They generally have better ones in Architect of Though, Narset, and Vengeant. He's a bit lackluster. TBH, I much prefer Knight-Errant
December 30, 2015 4:27 p.m.