Is Counterspell too strong for Modern?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 26, 2014, 9:53 p.m. by EvenDryke
What do you think, would Counterspell warp the format? Would it make control too good?
Or would it finally make traditional control attractive enough to be a strong presence without making it a dominate deck?
Personally I think that on it's own Counterspell would be fine to bring into Modern. The problem is that Snapcaster Mage is a thing. These two spells combined with some of the weaker counter spells in the format could come together and make one of the most not-fun decks the format has ever seen.
On the other hand, it could be just the breath of fresh air that traditional control needs to receive universal tier 1 status, or at least close to it.
<> Note: There are top tier control decks in the format in the form of Jund, Twin and UrzaTron. But I'm talking about baby's first control deck. Counter, kill spell, counter, kill spell, counter, drop a bomb, win.
The real issue is there is currently no way to introduce new cards to Modern without them also going in Standard, and Counterspell is almost certainly too good for most Standard environments.
January 26, 2014 9:57 p.m.
Yeah, that occurred to me as well. If Lightning Bolt is too good for standard then Counterspell certainly is.
What if Wizards printed a specialty set outside of a normal block (think Modern Masters) and used that to officially print modern legal cards. Some new, some old. The obvious problem is this could get confusing, but I have faith in the players.
January 26, 2014 10:02 p.m.
miracleHat says... #5
Counterspell ] warped the format in alpha/beta/unlimited/revised/fourth/fifth/sixth/seventh and way to many more. Giving any blue deck a counterspell with no drawbacks will be very annoying and i don't want to deal with that shit. I already get enough out of Cryptic Command and Remand anyways.
January 26, 2014 10:02 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Counterspell is too powerful for Modern. Counterspells printed since have had drawbacks for a reason.
Furthermore, current WOTC printing policy doesn't currently allow special sets to impact card legality. Only blocks and core sets can add cards to Standard and Modern because neither Standard or Modern is an eternal format. Eternal formats include cards printed in every MTG product.
January 26, 2014 10:08 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #7
"This could be confusing, but I have faith in the players"
The number of times that i've had to tell people that they can't play the heroes vs monsters dual deck decks at FNM says different.
Granted, I would love a real modern masters esque set that made a bunch of new and old cards strictly modern legal, but I don't see it happening, at least for quite a while.
January 26, 2014 10:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
I don't foresee WOTC changing its legality policies. As ThatBlueMage pointed out, players are pretty easy to confuse. Additionally, the current policy for noneternal formats is good for Modern because it helps control the power level. If a new card is too powerful for Standard, it won't get introduced to Modern because it won't be printed in a Standard-legal release.
January 26, 2014 10:16 p.m.
What about a spell that is essentially Counterspell with a drawback that didn't effect it's ability to actually counter the spell like Mana Leak and Remand have, and doesn't involve costing that crucial 1 more mana?
Attempts have been made (see Deprive ), but so far nothing good enough.
I just love control and want it to be better than it is currently.
January 26, 2014 10:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Deprive sees fringe play, I think.
Anyway, you're describing something that's basically Counterspell . If it has a drawback, but the drawback is irrelevant, then it doesn't really have a drawback.
Also, control does exist in Modern. Just not always in the traditional sense.
January 26, 2014 10:42 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #11
Personally, Mana Leak was bad enough when it was in standard. (Granted that was back when Snapcaster Mage was in play but still.) Printing Counterspell in standard (so that it could be added to the modern card pool) would be pretty dumb.
In modern control IS dying out but there is still hope in UTron and Gifts control. However, adding Counterspell would just put things over the top. I mean look what happened when they printed Mental Misstep ? Insta-banned in modern.
On the other hand we already have a pre-fuzed Counterspell + Silence that sees less play than I think it should but that's just me. (Render Silent .)
January 26, 2014 11:07 p.m.
miracleHat says... #12
I think that wizards had a Mental Misstep when creating that card. I thought that it was ridiculous when an uncommon F was ~$40.
January 26, 2014 11:09 p.m.
Maybe I'm just a sentimental old man that's too attached to the idea of control that I grew up with.
January 26, 2014 11:18 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #14
I'm with EvenDryke on this one. I'm a pretty new to magic (8 months) but to see some form of traditional control being shunned is a little disheartening. I don't think Counterspell should be reprinted, but it would be nice if someone at Wizards would throw Modern a bone, especially players who like to some good ol'fashioned control. I run UWR Control, and while it's satisfying, I really wish the meta could be shaken up enough to allow the Esper Control deck I want to play to be a little more competitive.
January 27, 2014 8:56 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
I think part of the problem is that people are less willing to experiment with control builds because of the meta. Everything is currently oriented around aggro decks (RDW, affinity), tempo/advantage decks (Jund, Pod), and combo (Splinter Twin). Control is better against combo, but the aggro and tempo decks give traditional control quite a few problems.
Perhaps one of the reasons many Modern control decks are nontraditional is that something else is needed to give control a more consistent and powerful presence in such a meta.
January 27, 2014 9:01 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #16
there is a reason why Cancel was printed, and it was to stop people from playing Counterspell lol
January 27, 2014 12:12 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #17
In most Modern decks Mana Leak would be a better card than Counterspell . I play mono-blue, but I use Cavern of Souls and AEther Vial to play a lot of my creatures, and also run Mutavault . I'm more likely to be able to play Mana Leak, because there's a greater guarantee I'll have (U)(1) open than (U)(U). In non mono-blue decks, it's even less likely.
Since Modern is a pretty fast format, "Counter unless you pay (3)" means a lot more than it does in Standard.
January 27, 2014 1:08 p.m.
personally, i agree Counterspell would be too powerful in modern... that being said if you want to build a 'traditional' mono blue control deck...
the counterspell loops of Snapcaster Mage , Spellstutter Sprite and Familiar's Ruse / Delay / Mana Leak / Rune Snag / Cryptic Command are pretty insane even without counterspell.
January 28, 2014 9:59 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #19
I have to admit I would lose my shit if Counterspell was made modern-legal, I love that card, but it is definitely too powerful. Funny how 1 cmc more can make a card suck
January 28, 2014 3:47 p.m.
About the drawback to be made, i think a spell that was UU Instant: Spend only mana produced by basic islands to cast ~. Counter Target Spell. That would be fine to be seen in modern, but most decks would just adapt to fit more blue sources if Counterspell proper was printed and it'd be OP. Mana Leak is good, but late game it fails. Counterspell doesn't. So i think it's good that it's not in modern.
EvenDryke says... #2
For the record, I am aware of UWR Control. I actually play it. But while a lot of people consider it Tier 1 (myself included), a lot of people think it's too weak and doesn't have enough punch to be Tier 1.
January 26, 2014 9:56 p.m.