Jace & Bloodbraid Unbanned
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 12, 2018, 11 a.m. by APPLE01DOJ
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/february-12-2018-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2018-02-12
Wish DRS would come off that lost myself. I know not going to happen.
Anyway what do you think this means for the format?
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #3
Huh. It's strange for wizards to do something that I don't want to complain about. I'm really excited for Jund decks to return because they're really fun to play against. Hopefully BBE Jund will be able to beat Tron reasonably. That would make for a fun meta.
February 12, 2018 11:14 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #4
Yea I'm excited for midrange to make a Jundback. So sick of Abzan being the best flavor of BGx.
Im curious where Jace will fit into the meta beyond U/W Control.
February 12, 2018 11:22 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #5
Delve threats will be pretty bad for the next few months. Back to goyf we go!
February 12, 2018 11:24 a.m.
Really, no Stoneforge Mystic, they jump directly to Jace? I am afraid that Jace's unbanning will follow up on ill fate Golgari Grave-Troll.
February 12, 2018 11:41 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #8
Here that folks....that is the sound of JMS's price spiking like crazy
February 12, 2018 11:54 a.m.
Glad I acquired a Jace for cheap during a Black Friday sale. I wish I had the sense to get 1-2 additional as it was all in store credit I had anyways.
February 12, 2018 11:57 a.m.
February 12, 2018 12:19 p.m.
Does Jace unban make UW miracles a dominant archetype?
February 12, 2018 12:22 p.m.
So that's why jace got the re print. Maybe blood braid will be in m25
February 12, 2018 12:38 p.m.
Honestly surprised to see Jace there. I know he was the talk of the town, but on the list of "possibilities to unban," he seemed way far down it. Kicking myself for not buying copies 4 and 5. Oh well.
February 12, 2018 12:45 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #14
I just yesterday read an article on cfb (can't remember the writer) where it was said that if bbe were to be unbanned, unbanning jace as well might be necessary...seems he's been right
February 12, 2018 12:47 p.m.
Both are interesting cards to unban, and I think that it will take a while for the "Best Deck" for each to be used in will be found. For Jace, the Mind Sculptor, there's already UW and Jeskai control, but for the Elf... Jund is obvious, but I'm more interested in something like a 5-color creatures deck, like this one: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-five-color-aggro-modern. What do you think?
February 12, 2018 1:27 p.m.
Will361405 says... #16
God I feel like Jace is so powerful, like idk how jund or most midrange decks beat it, it might make midrange have to play blue, or it could lend to control being bery powerful, as for bloodbraid, that card is awesome, but I really wish they unbanned Stoneforge Mystic too.
February 12, 2018 1:32 p.m.
Incoming Jace, the Mind Sculptor vs. Jace, the Mind Sculptor mirrors all day, erry day. I'm not worried about Miracles because the deck still doesn't have Brainstorm or Sensei's Divining Top. I'm worried about the already good Grixis Control and Lantern decks being pushed over the top.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor isn't something you just jam into play on turn 4 by tapping out. You want him to come down on an empty board or with some type of backup in your hand to protect him.
I'm not sure Bloodbraid Elf should have been banned to begin with. Nice to see it coming off.
I would have liked to see some other cards unbanned. I think the format has sped up so much that unbanning Birthing Pod or artifact lands would have been reasonable. I'm glad they didn't add anything to the list, though.
February 12, 2018 1:35 p.m.
sylvannos I worry about Miracles because it was already gaining some steam in a UW control shell with Riverwise Augur as a poor man's Brainstorm. Now, add Jace and you get your Brainstorm effect as well as another built-in win/con. I am not saying it will dominate modern, but it has the potential to do so. We have already seen Jace dominate a format in UW lists while it was in standard and now give him access to a much larger and stronger card pool..It seems risky. I don't think Lantern wants Jace. Once the lock is in place, you aren't in the mood to use any of the 3 modes. I could maybe see it as a way to speed up the Lantern clock, but I don't see where he would improve the deck all that much.
February 12, 2018 2:23 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #19
Does that mean we're gonna see Bloodbraid Elf into Liliana of the Veil all over again? :'(
I kind of thought Jace could be unbanned because it isn't THAT broken anymore but really hoped Elf would be kept away. This is a sad day, my friends.
February 12, 2018 2:59 p.m.
@Cragon18: Oh I definitely think U/W Control gets a lot better, I just don't know if we'll see something with Counterbalance and/or miracle spells. We already have Telling Time and Serum Visions, so I'm not sure a another 4-drop competing with Cryptic Command will do the trick. I could be wrong, I'm sure, but Legacy is even having issues setting up Counterbalance despite having Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, and Portent.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor's +0 doesn't do well with Ensnaring Bridge. However, I was thinking his +2 and -1 help lock everything down even further for Lantern.
@WizardOfTheNorthernCoast: ...and Bloodbraid Elf into Tarmogoyf mwahahahahaa!
I really want to play a RUG deck with Bloodbraid Elf into Kari Zev's Expertise into Ancestral Vision.
Also, this never gets old lol:
February 12, 2018 3:20 p.m. Edited.
I think the decision to unban those specific two cards are reasonable. The format is very fast and aggressive at the moment so I doubt two 4drops will destroy the diversity the format has atm.
BBE wont be doing much I think because the deck it used to see play in isnt relevant any longer with the most powerful midrange deck being GDS.
Jace gives blue a card. It has mostly been a support color for combo and control decks we might see good UW control decks again now.
I like to see them experiment with the ban List a little and explore which cards could live it, so this was definitely a step in a direction I like.
February 12, 2018 6:58 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #24
Pithing Needle becomes a better sideboard option. Was already good, now it's better against control match ups.
February 12, 2018 7:35 p.m.
Hell no thats not a card for lantern.
It doesnt do anything that you already can and you do t want to have 4 drops in a deck with ensnaring bridge
February 12, 2018 10:10 p.m.
multimedia says... #27
Hey, I've been playing Magic for a lot of years and this is the first time a Wizards decision has truly disgusted me.
I haven't really agreed with any decisions that Wizards has made for the last two years, its been one poor decision after another, but I can accept these decisions as major problems with the current RnD team. The decision to unban Jace in Modern however has nothing do to with team problems it's all about greed.
Wizards is very good at covering up their clear intent to make money instead of doing what the player base wants and is good for Magic overall. They're masters at doing this because players myself included keep playing and continue getting cards. It's so blatant here though putting company profits before players and the game; the transparency is gone. What they're doing with Jace I can't believe there's not more disgust. Where do you draw a line and say enough now?
Modern is the healthiest most diverse it's been in a long time. I still can't believe the results of this weekend's day one 10 undefeated decks of the GP. 10 different players, 10 different archetypes, all undefeated. I can't remember the last time this feat happened. Has it happened before?
The hallmark card for Masters 25 has been revealed. It's Jace and you can't hype a card like Jace to sell a set if it's banned in one of the most played formats of Magic. The purpose however of a ban list is to make a format healthier and more diverse. The unbanning of Jace changes this philosophy which is not good. For the first time I can remember Wizards is unbanning a clearly broken card for the sole purpose not of fixing a format making it healthier, but for selling the hype of a new set.
Making sure players buy packs of Masters 25 to crack Jace. The narrative, reason for unbanning Jace can't be that Modern needs more diversity because right now it can't get much more diverse. Wizards is sacrificing a completely healthy Modern format to sell Masters 25 which is sickening.
Unbanning cards is used to create a shake up in a format. Does Modern need a shake up right now? No it doesn't, definitely not.
February 12, 2018 10:30 p.m.
multimedia, is it though? I think it is smart and money-making to unban Jace after he has been announced in masters 25, but can you imagine the groan and price spike there would be if he was not being reprinted? As one of the most expensive cards on the banlist, they have to unban it if and only when there is additional supply coming to avoid it becoming prohibitively expensive.
Unbanning cards also be done with the explicit thought that it will NOT shake up a format. Does anyone remember what Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatl's unbannings did to the format? Literally nothing. Do you remember that how close the modern masters reprint of Bitterblossom and its unbanning were? Same with Ancestral Vision.
February 13, 2018 3:39 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #29
Yes I don't really get why people are all going crazy about Jace. It's a powerful card, no doubt about it. But so many decks (Zoo, Affinity, Burn, Goblins, Storm, and many more) can easily get the kill by T4. It's a common thing. And just on my side, I prefer running Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict in the 4 cmc slots of a UWx shell instead of a 100$ planeswalker that might be banned again anytime.
I'm really more worried about Bloodbraid Elf. We saw its power back in the days (cascading into Pulse or Lili or Tarmo is disgusting) and I really don't want to see Jund all over the place again. I think that's the one card that's gonna change the format the most, because its impact on the board is immediate and often backbreaking. Jund being arguably the best color combination in Modern, I think this one dudette is about to change the whole meta to Jund (again).
These are just my 2 cents though, but I guess time will tell anyways.
February 13, 2018 5:02 a.m.
I think your memories of BBE being a menace are flawed. It was more the combination of DRS and BBE that made BBE broken. You could cast it on T3, and that was simply too much to handle. Now you're casting it on average on T5. Which is fine in a format where decks consistently kill you T3/4.
February 13, 2018 6:13 a.m.
Also, BBE is a real strain since it cannot go well in any currently powerful deck. Jund is off the map and it is in conflict with Collected Company which is miles better than it. I think BBE will go well in a Wild Nacatl deck though, but there is no nacatl deck at the moment.
February 13, 2018 6:22 a.m.
Boza thank you. Exactly the two things I wanted to say.
February 13, 2018 6:23 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #33
I hope you guys are right(er than me), I really don't want Jund to dominate again :D
February 13, 2018 6:49 a.m.
multimedia says... #34
Boza, if Jace was not the poster child of the set being reprinted in Masters 25 he would not be unbanned in Modern. There would not be a spike in this price and he would stay where he belongs. Do you really think Wizards would risk hurting Modern right now? Are you fine with Wizards using a ban list as a tool to unban a card to better sell a set? I think this sets a bad precedent for the future of Magic.
You can throw arguments at me until the sun comes up that Jace will not disrupt Modern, everything will be okay, but history says otherwise. You don't possibly disrupt, take such a risk, to a format that's as good right now as Modern by interjecting such a card that in the past has been completely broken multiple formats when it was legal unless there's an alternative motive which there is, Masters 25.
The point of my comment is that this is a clear money grab by Wizards that's not subtle at all with no regard for Modern as a format and I find that very unsettling. Jace has already spiked, more than doubled in price since the announcement. I consider a $140 Planeswalker to be prohibitively expensive. Printing more of it in Masters 25 is not going to change his price much because it's such a sought after card that can now be played in Modern; the format that Masters sets are geared towards.
You're right from a money-making stance it's smart to unban Jace right now because of Masters 25, but that's the only stance that makes sense right now. And it doesn't make it any less ridiculous, laughable with no regard for anything other than money given the circumstances.
I will not be purchasing any Masters 25 and I hope others follow.
February 13, 2018 7:18 a.m.
Open your Jace was broken in standart an alongside stoneforge mystic. This is modern wothout SFM.
If History shows anything than that most cards coming of the banlist didnt have any impact on Modern (gravetroll is the exeption of course). There isnt anything we can learn from history in that case.
Dont be afraid of a card thatruined a much weaker format years ago.
Of course its a cash grab but people would have complained even more if they unbanned jace and didnt reprint him its a little unfair to make an akkusation from that
February 13, 2018 7:46 a.m.
multimedia - when they said there would be a B&R announcement right after the pro tour, i Predicted that jace would become a $250-300 planeswalker if unbanned. It is only thanks to the announcement of Jace being in M25 that it has only doubled in price.
Plus you cannot judge cards' prices right after an unban. Bloodbraid elf jumped several times yesterday but is already trending down.
Same will happen with Jace. Do you remember that bitterblossom was unbanned and not a year later was a part of MM2 that slashed its price in half? The same with Ancestral Vision and iconic masters.
The difference is the scale - the more expensive the card is originally, the closer in time a reprint has to be in order for an unban to happen. Jace is the most expensive card on the banned list for modern, so it makes perfect sense to announce the reprint and unban at almost the exact same time.
I agree - it is still a cash grab, but there is literally no other way to do it if they want people to have the cheapest posible JTMSs.
February 13, 2018 8:57 a.m.
I am absolutely going to buy packs of Masters 25. Hell I may even order a case.
February 13, 2018 9:36 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #38
Boza good point. I guess wizards figured out that reprinting Goyf every year was getting old so needed a new money card.
February 13, 2018 11:03 a.m.
Unbanning Jace the Mindsculptor and Broadbraid Elf is not the problem here people. What Wizards really needs to look at is the incredibly broken Aven Initiate
February 13, 2018 12:15 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #40
Hello friends. For those of you who remember me, I have returned on this most glorious of days to spread the joy that is in my heart. I am pleased to see Draw-Go Control getting some much warranted love. Now, that being said, I'm not wholly convinced JTMS is going to be revolutionary. Modern has sped up since I last was playing and now a 4cmc planeswalker seems slow and almost clunky. However, it's a good finishing tool if Control can manage to survive into the mid to late game. I for one am glad to see Jace being unbanned as Modern has definitely become more powerful over the past years.
BBE is a card I'm less certain of, since it was never something I toyed with. If it allows for Jund to comeback, or even inspire a new deck I am all for it. I also agree with this unbanning, if only to see what fun we can have.
Boza is probably right though... WotC is needing a new cashgrab card and Jace and BBE can fill that need money void. Remember friends, it isn't about making money. It's about making ALL THE MONEY!
February 13, 2018 1:03 p.m.
Heres the problem, as several big names in Magic have pointed out. The problem isnt that Jace is unbeatable, the problem is that other midrange decks will have trouble grinding out games against him unless they run him too. Leading to a format where you either run Jace or you run an unfair deck designed to win on turn 3. Itll create an environment where if you are running blue, youre running Jace. This is not great considering how open and diverse the format is/was.
Thats just the theory though. It is possible that once the hype settles down that Jace will just be okay in Modern and the format will adjust and move on.
Its also possible that someone might find a deck that breaks modern using him. Well have to wait and see. But its really unfortunate because Wizards might have screwed up what was a really good format in a cash grab attempt.
February 16, 2018 6:33 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #42
Honestly the deck I could easily see abuse JTMS would be Miracles. With Opt back in the format, this could really be a thing. Other than that I agree with MWorl91 : the format is fast enough to deal with him. And there's already a good amount of unfair decks running around (in my own meta at least) like Storm, Tron and Vizier CoCombo that won't care much about him.
What concerns Midrange decks, I fully agree Jace is a complete nightmare. However, most Midrange deck run green and green gives you access to Thrun, the Last Troll. There's almost no way for UWx builds to beat him unless you run things like Blessed Alliance somewhere in the 75.
If you want to make Control powerful again in Modern, the best way to do that IN MY HOLY OPINION is to bring back Counterspell. It's CMC is restrictive enough and control really lacks a good way deal with noncreature spells permanently. Remand is just tempo and feels really bad on a 1 cmc spell, Mana Leak is fine but gets less and less useful the longer the game goes (strange feeling for a control player), Spell Snare and Spell Pierce are really situational, same for Dispel and Swan Song, etc. So yes you have Logic Knot but your graveyard isn't an endless source of cards and if you run Snapcaster Mages it's kind of a nombo.
Let's let WotC have their money, then let's let them reban BBE and JTMS and let's beg them to reprint Counterspell in a Modern legal set :D
February 16, 2018 9:13 a.m.
defenitely counterspell should become modern legal, they dont want to have it in standart thats why they dont print it i think.
miracles wont work in modern i think because jace is the only good way to put things back on the library.
February 16, 2018 9:18 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #44
That's what I'm saying : if JTMS brings a new broken deck to the format, I think it will be Miracles because of his Brainstorm activated ability. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but it could.
Jeskai gives you red for Bonfire of the Damned and loot spells. Even just UW has access to stuff like Careful Consideration or most likely Ideas Unbound to discard your miracles and get them back with Noxious Revival. JTMS is just a damn good extra way to filter your hand and organize the top of your library while getting all the attention, hence my 'theory' :)
February 16, 2018 10:05 a.m.
miracles is pretty hard to play in legacy and they have actual brainstorm and ponder/preordain it doesnt work wery well without Top and modern is just worse in manipulatig the top of your library, i just dobnt think thats realistic.
IT will see play in mostly UW/Jeskai/Grixis control i suppose but well see which will be the best Jace shell in the near future
February 16, 2018 10:52 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #46
As much as I love the idea of Counterspell in Modern (being a long term advocate of it) there's no way this can happen without WotC allowing Modern to gain access to cards via supplementary products the same way Legacy does. Counterspell in Standard wouldn't be healthy. WotC learning their lesson for not printing enough answers is one thing, but I'm highly doubtful they would swing the pendulum that far.
February 16, 2018 11:53 a.m.
I think I'd rather have Daze and Misdirection over Counterspell in Modern. Neither card would be oppressive in the right Standard format, and both would help slow down the format so we could unban more cards.
February 16, 2018 5:45 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #48
They could still reprint it, end up realizing it's ruining the format, act surprised, then ban it for Standard. They did it with brand new cards like Emrakul or Reflector Mage, not intentionally but still... :) C'mon WotC, do something for the community just once please!
February 16, 2018 6:18 p.m.
Daze in death shadow would be disgusting blease not...
February 16, 2018 7:28 p.m.
Miracles in modern can absolutely work. In the Team Modern Super League, SaffronOlive piloted a Miracles Deck and went 3-0 in matches defeating Lantern Control, Burn, and Tron which were being piloted by Platinum Pros
Vixxxx says... #2
We have to wait and see but of course Control and Mid range decks will rise surely.
February 12, 2018 11:13 a.m.