Jace in modern?
Modern forum
Posted on May 16, 2015, 7:02 p.m. by maxami868
Jace Beleren. Is this guy good in modern? If so, what order do you use his abilities in?
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
Giving your opponents cards is never good. So no.
May 16, 2015 7:20 p.m.
None of the Jaces is both Modern viable and Modern legal.
May 16, 2015 7:34 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #5
To rephrase what square711 said:
Any Jace that is legal in modern is not viable in modern, and vice versa.
However, I will counter that with Jace, Architect of Thought seeing marginal play. It isn't the best card by any means, but it is entirely playable.
May 16, 2015 7:36 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #6
FAMOUSWATERMELON: Giving your opponents cards isn't always bad. It can at times be a mill strategy in combination with Fog spells. Or you can use it to drain their life with Fate Unraveler or Ebony Owl Netsuke effects.
In general, Beleren is kind of meh, though, I'd have to admit. He has to be in a very particular build-type.
May 16, 2015 7:52 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #7
Fate Unraveler has never and will never see modern play. Very very few decks use Ebony Owl Netsuke and they are not viable.
May 16, 2015 7:53 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #8
I know that Fate Unraveler hasn't and won't see play. I just can't think of the enchantment that has the same effect. I suppose I was trying to make the card more viable than it was. Jace, that is.
May 16, 2015 7:57 p.m.
ThatJunkMage: yeah, Jace, Architect of Thought is passable, if only for his -2 (I'd rather be playing Gifts Ungiven instead, but hey, it's not bad). Jace, the Living Guildpact sees marginal play too, although I honestly can't understand why. His +1 is bad scry, his -3 costs too much loyalty for what it does and I've never seen someone get to his ultimate, ever.
May 16, 2015 8:06 p.m.
buildingadeck: Underworld Dreams is the enchantment you're thinking of.
May 16, 2015 8:07 p.m.
Jace, Architect of Thought is perfectly playable in modern. I run 2 copies in my U/W midrange build. He's not the best walker in the format by a long shot, but he's a decent source of card advantage and he helps you dig. Not only that, his +1 isn't terrible either.
May 16, 2015 8:14 p.m.
Architect of thought is probably the 2nd most played planeswalker in modern right now.
May 16, 2015 8:44 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #13
Liliana of the Veil first obviously, but then there's Ajani Vengeant, Elspeth and Sorin in tokens, etc...
May 16, 2015 8:47 p.m.
Ajani vengeant currently sees no play since UWR is pretty much dead at the moment. Elspeth isn't played in tokens. Sorin IS played in tokens isn't a popular deck. Jace is seeing sideboard play in almost every single twin list and most other blue decks right now.
May 16, 2015 9:12 p.m.
The only other planeswalkers other than Jace and Lili that see play are in fringe tier 2 decks that aren't as popular as twin and almost every twin list is playing jace in the board.
May 16, 2015 9:13 p.m.
"Elspeth isn't played in tokens."
"and almost every twin list is playing jace in the board."
Wait, what?
May 16, 2015 9:16 p.m.
Very few twin lists haven't been playing Jace since the pro tour. Tokens sees pretty much no play and almost never plays any copies of any elspeth.
May 16, 2015 9:18 p.m.
Well, heck. I just checked mtgtop8 and the twin lists DO run Jace in the sideboard. That's... weird.
And it's true that Tokens isn't popular right now, but Elspeth, Knight-Errant is and always was a staple in the archetype.
May 16, 2015 9:24 p.m.
May 16, 2015 9:24 p.m.
Elspeth stopped seeing play in BW tokens when Sorin solemn visitor was printed. It's just better in the deck.
May 16, 2015 9:25 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #21
Jace is really, really good. Eats Spirits for breakfast and draws two at worst.
As for other planeswalkers: except for Liliana, they all suck. All of them.
May 16, 2015 9:28 p.m.
Ajani vengeant is very good, just no home for him right now.
May 16, 2015 9:29 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #23
xlaleclx Woah, wait a sec, "Elspeth isn't played in tokens."??? What does that even mean mean? Do you play tokens?
May 16, 2015 9:36 p.m. Edited.
A small percentage of tokens lists still play elspeth and nobody plays the deck anyway so I'm not sure what the confusion is.
And no I don't play tokens, the deck is bad.
May 16, 2015 9:38 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #25
xzzane I feel would like to have a few words about that statement. About every part of that statement.
May 16, 2015 9:40 p.m.
Couldn't care less about peoples opinions on this matter, I've been linking tournament results showing any decklists featuring the planeswalkers we've been talking about and there's only 3 BW token lists that have played elspeth knight errant on SCG's database and the most recent was like 3 months ago
May 16, 2015 9:43 p.m.
However if you look at the results for sorin solemn visitor there's considerably more BW tokens decklists.
May 16, 2015 9:45 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #28
Xlaleclx is right about Sorin being played way more than has Elspeth in tokens in recent results. :3
May 16, 2015 9:47 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #29
I'm sorry, but when I search for Elspeth on MTG Top 8, 232 decks come up. When I search for Sorin, not nearly that many results come up. You'll also notice that the most recent Elspeth deck is more recent than the most recent Sorin deck.
I should also add that if you care about nobody's opinion, no one will care about yours. You should be careful about that.
May 16, 2015 9:50 p.m. Edited.
B/w tokens is not a bad deck. Your statement there is wrong. And it is true that people have gravitated towards solemn visitor due to burn, but knight errant definitely sees play. Solemn visitor is only good if you have a steady board presence, while Elspeth is good regardless.
May 16, 2015 9:51 p.m.
The only BW tokens result from the past 2 months that I see on MTG top 8 is playing multiple sorin, no elspeth.
May 16, 2015 9:51 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #32
In B/W Tokens, sure. But other decks play Elspeth, as you'll see.
May 16, 2015 9:52 p.m.
On MTG top 8 there has been one deck that has played Elspeth Knight errant in 2015 in a competitive event and it was months ago.
May 16, 2015 9:55 p.m.
I am aware. As I just stated, people have gravitated towards Solemn Visitor due to its helping with the burn matchup. What I stated about him not being as good if the board state is lacking is true as well. Take it from someone that actually plays the archetype.
May 16, 2015 9:58 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #36
And yet, only four (FOUR!!) decks have played Sorin at a competitive level ever, whereas Elspeth goes to 69. I should also add that at a professional level, Sorin has never been played, compared to the two dozen times Elspeth has.
May 16, 2015 9:59 p.m.
Well Stanislav Cifka played Solemn Visitor in the pro tour, but he was running blossom, so it was to be expected. Solemn visitor is much better in a blossom list.
May 16, 2015 10 p.m.
I was responding to what FAMOUSWATERMELON had said. I didn't disagree with what you said about about sorin vs elspeth. I never gave an opinion on which is better; this was only ever about which cards are currently seeing more play.
May 16, 2015 10:01 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON When was sorin solemn visitor printed?
When was elspeth knight-errant printed?
May 16, 2015 10:02 p.m.
How about everyone take a chill pill and calm the fuck down?
May 16, 2015 10:02 p.m.
Also sorin solemn visitor DOES have a pro tour top 8 in modern. I have no idea where you're finding this information but absolutely everything you've said has been wrong when it comes to results from tournaments.
May 16, 2015 10:03 p.m.
Hey, I'm enjoying myself. I have family over right now that I'm trying to escape from and I have nothing better to do.
May 16, 2015 10:03 p.m.
Well honestly I find it a little annoying to be bickering so pointlessly. It could be that you insulted my chosen archetype though, I felt admittedly slighted by that.
May 16, 2015 10:05 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #44
Same :)
Elspeth may have been printed earlier, but she was played 12 times within six months of her being printed. Sorin has not met the same fate.
xzzane, think of this as friendly bickering :)
May 16, 2015 10:05 p.m. Edited.
Sorin was played a ton at Pro tour fate reforged. A good portion of the little kid abzan lists were playing it in the board for the burn matchup.
May 16, 2015 10:06 p.m.
It should also be noted that people might be trying Solemn Visitor out. He is not automatically better than Elspeth is, as you seem to think. Each have their pros and cons. In a meta where you might expect lots of burn, one might bring Solemn Visitor in though. Apologies to the OP for derailing your original question.
May 16, 2015 10:09 p.m.
MTG top 8 doesn't seem to be showing a huge portion of the results that are available elsewhere.
May 16, 2015 10:10 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #49
Sorry about that. We (I) got wrapped up in our argument. Back to Jace. While he's not playable, his twin Jace, Architect of Thought is played in Twin, and that's about it. The broken Jace is played in Legacy quite a bit, and in Vintage too I believe.
May 16, 2015 10:12 p.m.
I was going to say something, but after reading the words "I don't play tokens, the deck is bad", I kinda stopped giving a damn about this discussion. And xzzane and FAMOUSWATERMELON have pretty much summed up my thoughts on the subject anyway.
Servo_Token says... #2
Yeah, he's great in any deck that runs Howling Mine and Ebony Owl Netsuke. The order to use his abilities is Plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, -10, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, -10, ...
Otherwise, no, he's not great. Usually just 1 card and a life for 3 mana.
May 16, 2015 7:09 p.m.