Jeskai control resurgence?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 1, 2015, 7:01 a.m. by ChiefBell
Obviously UW/x control and UW/x midrange are placing pretty poorly at the moment. The reason for this is probably due to the fact that the deck is pretty slow and therefore has a much more favourable matchup against midrange decks like Abzan than it does with the current dominant aggro decks.
I started thinking last night about the potential for UW/x to scrap the large creatures in favour of early board presence. Young Pyromancer, Soulfire Grand Master and monastery mentor (see here) are all options that double up in terms of their defensive and offensive capabilities. The production of tokens is something that hinders aggro and provides a strong board presence later in the game. Being able to return cast spells to hand provides infinite Remand or Lightning Bolt. These options seem like they could do solid work in the deck.
Could it be possible to see UW/x control or midrange swap out some creatures like Restoration Angel or Geist of Saint Traft? I understand that these creatures are traditionally 'better' but in the current meta they're less suitable, given their higher mana costs and inability to deal with large swarms of creatures on the opponents side. I see other options as being more meta suitable.
Thoughts?
From a personal perspective I'm currently testing Jeskai control with Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor (see here). I believe the provision of tokens that have the potential to be buffed greatly seems very good as a defensive option and as a wincon later in the game.
You gain life for each damage they do. Lightning Bolt turns into Lightning Helix.
January 1, 2015 9:15 a.m.
slovakattack says... #4
I feel like the flavor of the deck would be more of a Midrange Delver deck than true control, wouldn't it?
January 1, 2015 9:55 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #5
With the new additions from FRF, I can see Jeskai being well positioned to slow down games. It already has great colors for control. I would probably run some Snapcaster Mages in there, and maybe leave Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard as a 1 of. The only issue with this deck is that it wouldn't want to run board wipes.
January 1, 2015 10:02 a.m.
I feel it's different from delver because it's not rushing to end the game quickly. In that way it's no longer tempo, it's just control.
January 1, 2015 10:34 a.m.
As someone that plays a lot of UWR Control, Geist, etc in Modern, I think it's possible to make a deck around these, but I wouldn't jam any of these in the current UWR lists.
The biggest issue I see is that you're swapping out win-conditions that are resilient for fragile ones. All of these creatures die to basically every removal spell in the format. So you need to wait to deploy them for when you have spare mana since getting zero value on them if your opponent kills them while you tapped out for them is super bad. This means waiting until turn 3-5 to even start to play any of these creatures, and a big appeal of the UWR lists is they basically play the whole game at instant speed sans jamming a Geist of Saint Traft or Batterskull into play which are big self contained threats.
January 1, 2015 11:13 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #8
I'm not a fan of Young Pyromancer in controlling decks. Alongside Soulfire Grand Master, you've got two wincons that can be Abrupt Decayed, Lightning Bolted, etc. Celestial Colonnade is much more resilient, as are Keranos, God of Storms and Geist of Saint Traft in some decks.
I think this plan would fit better in a Delver-style deck, with the focus being on tempo advantage. I feel that Peezy and the Grand Master are prime companions for Geist of Saint Traft in a more aggressive deck.
January 1, 2015 11:42 a.m.
I agree that gods and manliness are better wincons. I thin what I'm considering is the ability for Jeskai control to firm up its early game.
January 1, 2015 1:10 p.m.
The thing is, most Jeskai lists (that I've seen anyway) aren't taking advantage of some of the early wraths they have available like Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, and Volcanic Fallout. This cards can turn the tide and really blowout Delver, but for whatever reason people aren't using them. I think following a more traditional control strategy with wraths and more burn/spot removal would be stronger than running smaller creatures.
January 1, 2015 2:03 p.m.
I don't think soul fire grand master will make it to modern to fragile and in most decks paying for the second ability isn't going to be viable. It will usually mean tapping out just to get the spell back in hand. The life link isn't bad but not really worth. here is my jeskai delver list http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-01-15-IKF-jeskai-delver/
January 1, 2015 3:04 p.m.
He will make it into modern in burn decks as a sideboard card. Not sure about much else. I think his 4 mana ability is amazing and we'll costed but still too pricy for most decks. It's just something to consider.
January 1, 2015 3:12 p.m.
I sort of want to see a control resurgance, not tempo. Tempo is established and doing well. Control needs something more.
January 1, 2015 3:15 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
I think the best use for Soulfire Grand Master is the Skred shell I sent you. The problem with Jeskai control is that they want to be saving their mana open for counters or burn whereas Skred has lots of 1 mana removal, making a T3 SGM easy to back up since you can immediately profit.
Since Skred is a "control" deck, it wants to go the long game and that means that the lifelink will help it get there. Also, SGM's ability will be easy to activate with 1 mana spells, doing so on turn 4-5 to remove something with Skred or Lightning Bolt just to get it back could be pretty devastating.
To be honest I just want, one time, to get the game in a "lock" where I have a Boros Charm in hand and a SGM in play and keep making her indestructible or burning 4 to the face.
January 1, 2015 3:35 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #15
Kung foo tokens can work too i think. I don't know.
January 1, 2015 4:34 p.m.
Soulfire grandmaster is extremely bad in UWR control. You can't be playing 2 mana guys that just die to bolt and don't have very much impact on the game
January 1, 2015 5:08 p.m.
Losing a 2 mana creature to a bolt is hardly that big a deal. You also have all the counterspells in the world, so really it's not entirely likely to happen.
I don't really rate him personally, but I can see it happening at least in testing. That 4 mana ability he has gives you infinite counterspells and burn.
January 1, 2015 5:21 p.m.
It might go in some decks. I don't like the 4 mana ability myself, most of the time you will need to tap out to use it. Also in the modern decks it will be put in like delver it can be a push to get to 5 or 6 mana. Also in those decks I think the newly spoiled monastery mentor is just better IMO.
January 1, 2015 6:39 p.m.
We're talking about control decks. Control decks in modern can easily go to turns 6, 7, 8, and further. I completely agree that more aggressive decks like delver won't care one bit, but there are control decks that make the game go extremely long.
January 1, 2015 6:44 p.m.
oh right, I still don't know if I like feeding that much mana into something like getting a bolt back. I suppose in some cases it will be relevant though, still think the decks will just use Batterskull and sphinx's to gain life.
January 1, 2015 6:54 p.m.
Yes, I somewhat agree that it's probably better to just lay down Keranos, God of Storms or Batterskull and just.... win. However there is certainly something to be said for having an infinite Remand. All that card draw.
January 1, 2015 6:56 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #22
Remand isn't always strong, though. It's very good in the early game or when they are casting spells that they can't recast, but as the game wears on that stops happening as much. Cryptic Command with buyback is pretty sweet, though. Hell, I'll cast Dig Through Time for a couple of turns.
Still, it's fragile. Sideboard card, perhaps.
January 1, 2015 7 p.m.
I agree, I don't think buying back a lot of the UWR spells are really all that powerful, and honestly the deck already has some of that built into it. For basically as much mana as you can buyback Lightning Bolts to the face, you can just hit them with Celestial Colonnade. Keranos, God of Storms represents a similar level of value each turn, but you don't need to tap mana every turn. And none of these require having this 2/2 on the field and spells in hand.
Although one interesting thought in all this, I'm reasonably certain that if lifelink on spells works like lifelink on damage, Soulfire Grand Master means Lightning Helix gains you 6 life - 3 for itself and 3 for the damage lifelinking. Though this will have to wait for the final rules text.
January 1, 2015 11:19 p.m.
wumbowizard says... #25
I'm not certain of the ruling on this, but if soulfire grandmaster allows to you gain 3 life for every creature your delver opponent has on the board when you cast Anger of the Gods or 2 each with Volcanic Fallout plus itself, it seems viable to me as a way to jump above 30 life early in the game against what is essentially a burn deck, which i'd love to have in my uwr snapcaster deck
SkyRaider42 says... #2
This isn't really about the deck, but how is it possible for instants and sorceries to have lifelink like it says on Soulfire Grand Master?
January 1, 2015 9:11 a.m.