Looking for good modern creature cards! you might find somethign you like too!
Modern forum
Posted on April 11, 2015, 1:42 p.m. by nickiru
You guys could post your favorite creature as well:
but My goal is to find 'good' creatures and here is a list of what I have gathered so far which will give you an idea of what I am looking for:
Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, Mul Daya Channelers, Courser of Kruphix, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Qasali Pridemage, Jorubai Murk Lurker, Noble Hierarch, and Omnath, Locus of Mana.
as well as Domri Rade and Phyrexian Obliterator.
Dark Confidant is tricky because he hurts you. rather than pure benefit he is a trade of life for power. He's good, but I don't liek cards like that: I want 100% profits with no detriments.
basically very efficient and multitasking utility creatures of very low cost.
anyone want to add? I am feverishly looking for cards like these: especially Knight of the Reliquary: she is the best in this list and I doubt she can be topped by another card.
ooo, those are cool. Siege Rhino probably the best in ur group of 3.
even then though, he is just a Lightning Helix with a nice body. I do see synergic properties though in a flicker or bounce deck: especially a token flicker deck as the rhino would be good removal/lifegain.
April 11, 2015 1:52 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #5
Don't forget about Wild Nacatl and Steppe Lynx either- Those are pretty much the best "aggro" creatures you can play outside of Tarmogoyf.
April 11, 2015 2:02 p.m.
Steppe Lynx is amazing especially with fetches. Knight of the Reliquary can also fetch a fetch to fetch a land which makes linx a maxed 8/9
HA goyf: honestly I think he is totally overrated. yah, not my thing. plus he doesn't do anything, he is just a low cost critter. Scavenging Ooze kicks goyf's butt in usefulness as well as power.
April 11, 2015 2:07 p.m.
I don't understand the Jorubai Murk Lurker. What makes it so good?
April 11, 2015 2:58 p.m.
lol, that little twerp is obviously barely making it on the list. He is like a better Kitchen Finks cause he lays lifelink to other critters. he can't be burned (easily) if you got a swamp so he makes a great wall as a 2/4.
so a multi-lifelinking nonburnable 2/4 wall that 'can' attack if desired for 3 mana. not bad, just not amazing of course.
April 11, 2015 3:28 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #9
He is not a better Kitchen Finks. Just throwing that out there. He is a much worse Kitchen Finks against almost every deck.
April 11, 2015 3:47 p.m.
I do love Knight of the Reliquary she is definitely one of my favorite cards but try playing with a Tarmogoyf and you will see why he is so over priced. I used to not understand why he was so hyped and all that but then I played with and against him,he easily deserves his spot as the best creature in modern! Also,kitchen finks is MUCH better than Jorubai Murk Lurker
April 11, 2015 3:59 p.m.
The murk lurker requires mana to be sunk into it and once its dead its dead
April 11, 2015 3:59 p.m.
Ha well, I gave my reasons for murk luker being better than finks and you guys are just making claims that he isn't, argue back otherwise my position won't be changed. i need convincing :D
not trying to be rude: just trying to spark debate even if its a small one. convince me :D
Voice of Resurgence: hmmmmmmmm well.... dunno, he just.... no... hmmmm
doesn't cut it in my opinion. he is like a lesser Kitchen Finks (lol finks fun to compare too). both those critters have two bodies worth but finks gain you life twice so 4 life total where voice makes a 'potentially' stronger token when he dies. he does however restrict casting from teh enemy a bit, but again that's a bit deck sensitive cause burn decks can toast both voice and the token during their turn which is equivilent to finks or murk lurker (since lurker is a 2/4 which requires 2x Lightning Bolts!. which when I refer to burn I correlate it with teh ever so common bolt which is 3 dmg.)
For a creature to be good in my opinion its gotta either does lot of good things like Scavenging Ooze and Knight of the Reliquary or rape the battlefield like Phyrexian Obliterator for a very low amount of mana for their abilities worth.
\which low mana, i am fine with 5 costs and beyond as long as they are worth their mana to power ratio; thus efficiency. like obliterator is a pseudo eldrazi 5/5 tramp for 4 mana which is absolutely over-powered in my opinion. better than emrakul due to beign so playable. again, 4 MANA, he's my second fav card
April 11, 2015 4:26 p.m.
yah murk lurker dies its dead, but death by burn is equivalent to finks. the life link has greater return on investment in the long run: OF course, this is all deck sensitive. depends on what teh creatures are in and what they are facing which then this dabate is worthless. like goyf, i think its stupid, but I understand how efficient it is for 2 mana: it is redicuilous, but I don't like it cause of what it does (it doesn't do anything.) against a burn deck yah he kicks butt but blablabla
April 11, 2015 4:29 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #15
nickiru: Voice of Resurgence and Tarmogoyf are incredible creatures. I think you need to playtest with them before making claims about them. Voice prevents control from playing counterspells and instant-speed removal on your turn for fear of another creature entering, and it also has amazing synergy with tokens. On the other hand, Tarmogoyf usually ends up being a 4/5 (the body of a Siege Rhino) for two mana. That's excellent.
April 11, 2015 5:04 p.m.
the thing is though,you always have to sink mana into murk lurker in order to give a creature lifelink,at least two mana may not seem like much each turn but thats 2 mana you could be using to do bigger,more efficent things.
April 11, 2015 6:01 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #17
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a 1-mana goyf that gets your spells back. Voice of Resurgence destroys control like nothing else. Goyf is a regular 4/5 or 5/6 for two mana, that's about as much value you get get out for that little. Kitchen Finks is a giant middle finger to burn since it gains life and comes back. Vendilion Clique is a Thoughtseize that comes with a 3/1 beater and that's an instant. Wild Nacatl is a 3/3 for one mana. Eternal Witness gets you back absolutely anything. Spellskite is the bane of half the decks in Modern. Melira, Sylvok Outcast is Kitchen Finks for infect, and can go infinite with it. Aven Mindcensor shuts down fetches. Fulminator Mage destroys Tron and just about everything else. I've only listed like 1/4 of the "good" modern creatures, but that should be sufficient.
April 11, 2015 6:15 p.m.
@FAMOUSWATERMELON, oo cool.
AHAHA! melon you nailed it: Tasigur, the Golden Fang is FAR superior to a goyf, that's not what yousaid but I am saying it. mid game, 1 mana 4/5 with a mana sink ability. THATS BETTER BY A LONG SHOT.
anyways!!! i am trying to be quick dur to homeowrk load and this is too much funz: ;D
WOOO RANT, prpare for a splattering of crap grmmer an tiepoes xD an comma splices, ,,,,,,,,::"';,..~';
I have playtested them, voice and goyf, and fought against 'many', emphases on many. I am a weirdo because I test everything that people suggest to me. literally I test them all, both in my deck and against.
(crappy credibility established)
Claim: goyf just lacks strategic value. When I fight against a goyf I literally am joyed because its a bad card in my mind. Reasoning:::It is usually smaller than my creatures, it can be burned if put out early, end game a 4/5 is miniscule to a 8/8 knight o reliquary or scooze, where reliquary also can have synergy with Sejiri Steppe and give protection to my creatures or itself, or grab man lands, fetch lands to fetch to deck thin massively as well as bolster its own strength... etc etc etc. voice has more value by 'far' than goyf in my opinion, as he has posed a threat to me from time to time, the reasons you stated against a control deck, but even him i just don't like 'that' much. I would much rather a Scavenging Ooze due to its graveyard control, lifegain, and how it could vastly surpass goyf in power especially against a control deck (since there will be plenty of countered resources in the graveyard for ooze to eat up which is life and power, life at the least if he gets removed which is equivalent or better to a Kitchen Finks.) In combat scooze is a target for me, cause it can eat up my creatures, flashbacks, dredges if i run them, lands for reliquary, etc.... and it gets fat and that player gains life. goyf, again, just sits there and is a small/fixed wall. I say fixed because best case scenario he is a 6/7, if i am correct in that, where ooze keeps going. voice needs a token hoard to support its power. whereas ooze is independently good.
that's an awkward paragraph
goyf would just sit there as a 3/4-4/5 avg and.... that's it.... that's why i don't like em
likewise, voice just sits there; minor disruption which is much better, but not as good as scooze. I am comparing them to scooze because they are all 2 costs cause in the end I would take a reliquary over all of these cards. I coud rant for a very long time as to why reliquary is over powered for 3 mana, likewise with phyrexian obliterator.
yah: if there isn't enough value to rant on and on about a card's beauty, that means it lacks strategic value.
but this is all my philosophical bull: i mean, I believe what I want and you'll likewise so... You would need to kick my butt with a goyf or voice or just have a compelling argument to change my views.
Yes I would agree that the mana sink is a detrimint. That is one positive argument towards voice and goyf over scooze and murk lurker. But decks need mana sinks right? who doesn't get mana flooded from time to time? An efficient deck is one that can deal with lack of mana and a surplus of it. goyf would be good if you consistantly lacked mana, but you would have to run a deck with so little mana that you risk barely having enough or none at all. an efficient build is to have teh equilibrium of mana whre you could get a little too much or too little mana and have your non mana deal with either situation.
murk lurker and scooze soak up mana, in a lack of mana situation, you'll have other cards in hand to play first. Also, when running a deck sometimes you get an extra mana or two after casting and you cna't use it for anything, things like scooze and lurker absorbe that normally watsed resource which was caused by chance and put it to use: i.e. graveyard control, lifegain, beastliness.
again, goyf just sits there...
The only compelling point I have heard thus far is that playing a goyf or voice that don't need mana later allow a deck to keep casting/flowing from then on. its a good point.
April 11, 2015 6:21 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #19
How has this discussion gone on for so long without any mention of Snapcaster Mage? That is clearly the best blue creature, and arguably the best creature ever printed if only for the sheer utility it offers.
April 11, 2015 6:22 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #20
Ok. Here is why murk lurker is bad:
1: Horrible against removal. The only removal this guy dodges is Bolt. Bolt decks are generally terrible against Kitchen Finks, so that's a non-issue. If you give it life link and it dies, you just used 5 mana to take out a removal spell. This is a terrible rate, as most removal is 1-2 mana. Finks is 3 mana to take out 2 removal spells AND net you life, which is way more efficient.
2: Bad body. Being a 2/4 (at best) in a world of Siege Rhinos and Tasigur, the Golden Fangs is pretty terrible. Maybe he'll block a Goblin Guide, but I'd rather have Kitchen Finks against burn, because Finks tears that deck to shreds (exaggeration, but you get the gist). A 3 mana 2/4 (again, at best) is a really bad place to be.
3: His only real advantage is "win-more". Your argument is that he gives more guys lifelink. What do you really want to give lifelink to? Maybe you want to give Tasigur, the Golden Fang lifelink (it's the only good beater in these colors that I can think of, although I'm sure I'm missing some). We activate for lifelink, Tasigur gets Path'd. Now we've uselessly spent 2 mana. If we have a big army that they can't beat with spot removal, then we're winning anyways 90% of the time. If they don't have Path, we already have a 4/5 beater against no removal. When is this ability actually going to be relevant, and how often does it outweigh the benefits of Kitchen Finks?
4: Color. Maybe this could go in UBR delver, but it's worse than every other card there, and kind of defeats the purpose (Delver wants efficient and/or resilient threats, like Delver of Secrets Flip, Young Pyromancer, and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Delver does not want to pay 5 mana to draw an Abrupt Decay). Maybe it goes in UB Faeries, where it's taking up a valuable disruption slot and not providing any of the synergy the deck is known for (although, negating life loss from Bitterblossom is pretty good, so maybe this could go in budget Fae). By contrast, Kitchen Finks works in any green OR white deck, and fits very well with most of these (it's great attrition for Abzan, it's amazing with Wilt-Leaf Liege for Little Kid, it combos in Podless Melira, etc., etc.).
For all these reasons, and more that I can't quite word correctly right now, Finks is vastly superior to Murk Lurker.
April 11, 2015 6:23 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #21
KillDatBUG You could just mention the two-drop cycle in modern (snappy, goyf, bob, pyromancer, and an arguable Thalia).
April 11, 2015 6:25 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #22
Programmer_112 It definitely does not go in budget Faerie. Unless you're trying for $10 or under.
April 11, 2015 6:27 p.m.
KillDatBUG: HA, yes snappy is good, definitely, and a mana sink in a way. I personally have never used him and may never but I definitely agree about his strategic value being great.
HMMMMM
Programmer_112 you nailed it: yah... ok....
ur third point was teh most compelling to me: yah its a win more. I have a tendancy to think end game while otehrs think about teh immediate. end game,... ur already winning right? so yah, finks is better. your point about removal to mana cost ratio is a good one too.
ok im swayed. HA see this is why i like arguments, you guys think differently than me:
i am still stubborn about goyf though, voice i am on my way: it depends how voice saved my brew against control.
April 11, 2015 6:31 p.m.
hmmmmmmmm, I just was theorizing about voice... I happen to have a deck that I won't link cause of epockolyptic, which i wont link his name either, would move this page elsewhere: synergic efficiency
lols, i'll laugh if he is reading these and sees this comment :D
Voice of Resurgence hmmmmm
I think he will be getting some lovein after all vishnarg at least from me... I been having a small control issue with my brew, it beats everything else but control and voice i think might cut the bill.... test time, actually homework unfortunately... but later I think he'll make a great sideboard along with Loxodon Smiter.
April 11, 2015 6:34 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #25
nickiru: All the cards you're mentioning, Scooze, Knight of Reliquary, Murk Lurker, require an investment to be good. Goyf starts off as good. While it dies to the same removal as the other cards, it is FAST, which is important in modern. Efficiency is the key. KotR is great, Scooze is great, but that does not make Goyf any less great. I'm not one who even plays Goyf, but it is clear that it is a very good aggro card, and that can't be argued. Even in midrange he's good, because you should be running Abrupt Decay and Go for the Throat to deal with your Scooze or KotR.
April 11, 2015 6:34 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #26
Epoch sees all, I'm guessing he's already read this entire thread.
April 11, 2015 6:35 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #27
You said that Goyf can be burned if played early. Tell me, how do you burn a 3/4 Goyf on T2 after they just took your Bolt with Thoughtseize? I'm very interested in knowing, because I'm willing to bet that you can't.
Also, I feel like you aren't playing against good decks. KoTR is one of my favorite cards, but I've never found a deck where it's as good as you think it is. Mana fixing is good (although not really necessary in Modern most of the time), but a potential 3-mana 2/2 is not good. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek a hit it WAY before it comes down, Path to Exile, Dismember, and Murderous Cut (underplayed IMO) all hit it. Even Lightning Bolt can hit it. It's not Hexproof like Geist of Saint Traft, it doesn't hit for 6 like Geist of Saint Traft, it's bad against grave hate, and even Geist of Saint Traft doesn't really get played. He does die to more, but most of the time he's just a better card.
Lastly, the case for Voice of Resurgence. Although it's not the best card in Modern, it's still very good. Say you go T2 Voice of Resurgence. Control now HAS to kill it on their turn. Now you T3 Lingering Souls and swing 3. Now, they're going to have to ki your Voice token or take 5+ next turn. They're down 2 removal spells. Now, T4 Siege Rhino and swing 2. Your opponent is down 2 removal spells and 8 life, they're facing down 2 flying power and 4 trampling, and you can recover from a board wipe. If the Voice was a Scooze, this changes. Your Scooze dies as soon as you try to activate it, your opponent counters your Siege Rhino with the open mana they now have, etc, etc. Although Scooze can be a better card than Voice (and, given the choice, I would probably take Scooze too), Voice of Resurgence is all kinds of efficient.
April 11, 2015 6:36 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #29
I can see where you're coming from on Goyf, although I disagree. I'm not an expert on the card by any means (unsurprisingly, I've never had the chance to cast one IRL), but I think that there are probably MUs where Goyf is crap (again, note that I'm pretty bad at analyzing cards in matchups, so take this with a few heaps of salt). However, it seems like most of the time it's the most efficient thing you can do, and it does let you go T1 fetch, Thoughtseize, T2 3/4 Goyf, T3 Liliana of the Veil, +1, swing with potential 5/6 Goyf and basically just win the game.
April 11, 2015 6:42 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #30
@FAMOUSWATERMELON: huh, never knew that. It does seem like it would rock in Big Zoo, although IDK about Little Zoo, so I guess I'll take your word for it. Thanks!
April 11, 2015 6:44 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #31
Yeah, it's good because it gets you the lands you want, builds Goyf, builds Nacatl, and provides an excellent finisher. But that's not the point here.
April 11, 2015 6:46 p.m.
Yall forgot Birds of Paradise and Wurmcoil Engine. I'm disappointed.
April 11, 2015 7:03 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON i know right? epoch is a cop, sniffin out crime. wonder if he eats donuts all day while watching us in his cop car staring through his speed-laser.
buildingadeck: likewise, i can Abrupt Decay or Go for the Throat of a goyf. in modern its a lot of chance and it depends on what you would want to have survive by luck. If your enemy has a removal, they will use it and it won't matter if it were a goyf or knight. if he doesn't... holy crap i would much rather have cast a knight than a goyf. especially if you leave a Sejiri Steppe or two in ur deck you have protection from then on using reliquary.
thus the argument with finks over murk lurker was fair. I was considering burns as I tend to focus on countering rush decks since i hate them so much.
Programmer_112 this is how you burn a goyf after thoughtsize removing a bolt, you draw another and then burn it. goyf would only be a 2/3 since there would be a sorcery and instant in the grave at this point, potentially a fetch land. however, since we are going this route, the red deck could have a third bolt....
removal is all chance, we are assuming you had a thoughtsieze goyf and fetch and that the red deck had 3 bolts. both needed 3 cards to operate this debacle which means equivalent odds. i just... i don't believe that argument was worth anything..... cause i can spin it back around.
the part about knight being not as good as i think? oh boy... I'm on a 12 game winning streak with my latest brew which utilizes knight to the MAX. I haven't had a game where i lost where if reliquary landed and survived a turn. if she lives 'till she can tap, i win because of her core Sejiri Steppe combo. she mana ramp, gets stronger, gets power lands like Slayers' Stronghold or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if I want to hard cast Phyrexian Obliterator, deck thins so I draw less lands as I draw, etcetc there is so much about her that she just wins me the game every time. if she gets removed, I move on, just like if it were a goyf. if it were a goyf, it fights a bit and can't protect itself or otehr creatures you control. it gets removed later or upon entry. so, upon entry is rleiquary's only weak point to me.
also, I liek doing the Arena Phyrexian Obliterator combo: its a near kikijiki game winning combo that is a bit easier to let off, especially with knight fetching the lands needed.
dual knights is AWSOME, one fetches the other protects. dual goyf..... dual wall? one swings other screens, hmmm nope not sold.
about not fighting good decks? I fight a lot of so called 'pros', and i do see there know it all game play style so I know they are and the decks they play are insane good, but I play these guys. ranging from affinity, junk, splintertwin, you name it.... thus 12 game winning streak is amazing and a good chunk of the wins are due to reliquary alone. (by the way, all the wins had a good variety of deck types, 3 of them affinity and each a different guy I remember that.)
again, the removal argument applies to any card we wish to discuss. its a bad argument, you can remove goyf just like reliquary. if the enemy can't remove your play at the time, which would you rather have? I would rather reliquary for the above reasons. I will restate that she can protect herself if she lives a turn. however,m on tehre own merits and average competitive deck build, reliquary is just a superior card and goyf just sits there...
like i said, goyf just sits there....
:::::
the voice case I am deeply considering cause I am concerned for my particular brew. If he does all the we think he does, I'll let you all know... I think I will have to table that card 'till i test it.
HA!!!!
birds... I agree, its nice. depending on the deck of course (typically i run both these but) I would rather a Noble Hierarch due to the exalted. he/she/it whatever it is I honestly can't tell looks like a flat-chested women with an 8-pack::::anyways: it makes GWU which is very cool covering 3/5 of magical colors.
Wurmcoil Engine... HA yah that's pretty sweet. i'll take dat over finks any day (duh, but it costs 6 mana blabla not starting an argument there ignore that comment)
April 11, 2015 7:09 p.m.
WOOOO I LOVE THESE DISCUSSION hope i aint boring, annoying, or offending anyone. i am just arguing to understand people's logic. I am a competitive modern home brewer by heart cause I don't agree with other people's card decisions. this is good for me. maybe I could change your views on some things as well and we both walk away benefiting something.
April 11, 2015 7:11 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #35
Just a side note, if you Lightning Bolt a 2/3 goyf with no instants in graveyards, it doesn't die, since it goes to the grave before it resolves.
April 11, 2015 7:12 p.m.
well yes, but in the scenario provided earlier a Thoughtseize took down a bolt/instant already so... yah.
April 11, 2015 7:13 p.m.
AHA Epoch hasn't responded. Maybe I'll make repulsive insults at him behind the scenes EVERYWHERE and when he notices one he will see them EVERYWHERE and I'll laugh.
no.,.... that's like enraging a police officer, lose my license. though if he never responds than I know I can deck list without him noticing, or he's being wise about this and waiting for the time to strike; waiting for me to abuse it. we'll see.
if you are reading this i am just playin with yah epoch :D <<<<< fat smile >>>>>
Yes, you do your job fine. i just get annoyed sometimes.
April 11, 2015 7:17 p.m.
well, i haven't heard a compelling argument for Tarmogoyf.
the recursive one about removal doesn't carry weight to me cause it goes both ways which is fallacious.
(let's poke the bears with a stick)
personally I would strongly prefer a Sun Droplet.... but that's just me :D it absolutly counters red burn decks, great sideboard. and that's what I think of goyf, he's only a good sideboard.
April 11, 2015 7:20 p.m.
nickiru, No offense, but please stop talking. You really don't know what you're talking about.
April 11, 2015 7:27 p.m.
Now, that is what bugs me. who decides that I don't know what I am talking about? you are on equal footing with me bro, you can't just say i don't know what I am talking about with no reasoning behind it: that's just improper argument.
I gave a fat list of reasoning (although abstract in ways and poorly constructed since this ain't a tech writing class), but I provided reasoning and a decent argument about what I believe, and then you say that I don't know what I am talking about? and that's it?
how about you argue back? cause if you don't, than logically i would reason you don't know what you are talking about since you couldn't respond with an argument and am simply observing.
also, if i don't know what i am talking about: please state in what way i am wrong. if I am fallacious, tear me apart, show me. DO TELL!! :D
otherwise I will hold strong. besides, I'll bite a bit on the red-heron bait here: you know nothing about me except what you could read on my profile. You don't know my experience, my raking among other professional players, and education both real world and magic. You have no idea (laugh in my head) who you are talking too. I can't establish my credibility with you guys cause whatever i say could be claimed as 'made-up', however don't assume that I don't know what i am talking about.
FURTHER MORE MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I talk a lot for fun. I'm gonna talk all i want cause i can and if you don't like it blabla... just remove thy self. I get few crafty and intelligent people to discuss things with so this is my time to vent my abstract thoughts in a hopes that I grab at least one person's attention and have an interesting debate about a theory or card.
blabla bk and ablab
April 11, 2015 7:39 p.m.
also I find it comical that I would use Tarmogoyf, what I believe to be a overrated 200$ card, as merely a sideboard; if that.
April 11, 2015 7:41 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #42
nickiru We decide that you don't know what you're talking about. Stop.
There is an astonishing lack of Vendilion Clique, Restoration Angel, Snapcaster Mage, Keranos, God of Storms and Batterskull (it counts). All you guys are doing is naming boring Abzan creatures (and Tasigur).
There are other fun ones, like Celestial Colonnade, Mutavault, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Creeping Tar Pit. Manlands also count.
April 11, 2015 7:59 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #43
nickiru: Yes, you can do those things to Goyf, but you didn't have to invest anything in Goyf to make him good. In the case of KoTR or Scooze, you have to invest things to try to make them good to have an in response removal. Goyf doesn't necessarily have protection for himself, but he's a 2-mana beater who is nearly always good. Drawing into a KoTR in the late game means a flat 2/2. Goyf in the late game is a 5/6. In the early game, Goyf is likely a 3/4 or a 2/3 minimum while KoTR is a 2/2 until you do something with it.
April 11, 2015 8 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #44
No offense, but if it weren't for Tarmogoyf's $200 dollar pricetag, I'm willing to bet good money that you wouldn't be calling him "sideboard material" or "overrated". People used to say the same thing about Thoughtseize when those was worth $80 each, citing that "it wasn't worth it" compared to significantly worse options like Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, Despise, and Despair. But now that copies are readily available at $20 each, you don't see anyone complaining about it anymore.
And for my money, Tarmogoyf is and always will be the best aggro creature in Modern, no matter what it's worth.
April 11, 2015 8:10 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #45
buildingadeck If you have KotR, you have fetches. But you're definitely right. Not needing to invest ANYTHING except the initial cost for 'Goyf is amazing.
April 11, 2015 8:13 p.m.
JexInfinite: i have had many arguments like this and it always seems like people are liek a hive mind and if I don't conform I get rejected. interesting. you may all decide to say my talk is bull, but I will pitch my claims in a hopes for another rebel to come my way and then have great discussion. also, occasionally I sway people and then they go and build a better deck.
anyways:
buildingadeck: 90% of decks competitively run fetches. its just the way it is: to help get mana colors. so there is no investment for knight. you say she comes down as a 2/2 flat late game but this is false. late game you wold have maybe 2-3 fetches which makes knight a 4 or 5/5 which is mirroring goyf. realitically, knight mirrors goyf in power if you don't invest anything, which means you are only payin gone more mana for her mana ramping 'tap search for land' ability.
This way goyf just sits there and so can knight; however, knight will always be a 3 cost goyf with a land fetch ability which is also mana ramp. at the core these cards I would say are equal. AT THE VERY CORE. pitch a Sejiri Steppe in the deck and whammo you got a BEAST. so now knight has many synergic properties: also mentioning her deck thinning abilities for bette rdraw..... goyf..... just sits there
besides, turn 30 with a pile of fatties out, again, knight would be better as goyf will be a 4/5-6/7 and knight would be a 8+ depending on your fetches and also use of knight earlier to have more lands in the grave, and your draws will be better that late. of course turn 30 is a great exaggeration but my point...(hey it happens rarely and your deck needs to have the end game curve somehow which knight covers that too, goyf......... JUST SITS THERE AHAHAAAAAAA)
at the base, knight is using an already existing resource and mana ramps for 1 more mana which is equivalent or arguably more efficient than goyf who just sits there for 2 mana.
April 11, 2015 8:27 p.m.
OH CRAP, Batterskull oh i feel so bad ppor sucker isn't in the list!!
yah bskull totally is totally in my awesome creature list. that thing is broken. thanks JexInfinite
I like Restoration Angel cause of the flash flicker. it protects my critters and synergistic with a lot of card abilities (cough cough, kiki jiki among many.) and its a 3/4 'flyer'. very nice.
April 11, 2015 8:42 p.m.
nickiru, for a guy who talks so much and so extensively, you say very little. If you had ever played modern at a competitive level, you wouldn't question goyf, but clearly you have not.
April 11, 2015 10:02 p.m.
That's an assumption all on its own, maybe I am just better than you. Are you just unable to break away from the common status quo? maybe I am just on a higher level of thinking? have you ever thought that maybe I am simply the superior player trying to shed some wisdom upon you?
NO! you assume that I am the one who doesn't know what I am talking about because I don't conform. I said it before: if you don't like it move on. otherwise I implore you to absorb my ideas. I encourage you to do critical thinking rather than take some guy's word for it which is what you are doing with goyf. that card is just a fad.
And again, you don't know my experience or understand the level of my play. with my skill level goyf is a mere insect that I squash on my way to victory. I boldly question him as well as many other cards and deck archetypes because of there strategic weakness and how easy it is for me to beat them.
but this is just my word. you need to understand that we are on equal footing as far as credibility. I seemed to be stripped of any worth as soon as I disagree with a common fad or a mass-accepted concept. maybe you guys have a weakness and i am addressing it, but you won't listen. my own argument can be used against me since i can be seens as a rebellious noob, but all i can say is I assure you, I am not a noob.
say so much yet so little: yup, maybe you just don't understand me or won't listen to my abstract thoughts?
(sigh) I think now we will begin to run in circles in this particular argument, but we'll see.
April 11, 2015 11:23 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #50
Alright, so answer this please. Goyf is better than Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, etc... is because he comes good. Check this out:
Goyf: Guaranteed 2 mana for a 4/5 on average, likely higher. Usually burn proof the turn he hits the board.
Ooze: Conditional 4/4 for 4 mana or 5/5 for 5 mana. Sometimes burn proof after two more mana spent after casting.
KoTR: Three mana and around two turns for a 4/4 or 5/5. Can be burn proof the turn he hits the board, but unusual.
See the difference?
Programmer_112 says... #2
Loxodon Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege are good. Siege Rhino is good. Basically just everything in Litte Kid Junk is what you're looking for.
April 11, 2015 1:50 p.m.