Mardu Discussion
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 7, 2015, 5:26 p.m. by VampireArmy
No this isn't my asking for help on my deck. No decklists posted here unless in direct reference to the discussion (I.E. if you need to prove a situation that X card is worth running)
With that out of the way, what do we know about RWB?
We know it does aggro (not to be confused with burn)
We know it does Midrange
We know it can do control
Our underlying problem
We lack Tarmogoyf : A cheap beat stick with insane defense stats as well.
We lack Abrupt Decay / Maelstrom Pulse : two of the most efficient destruction spells ever printed.
So how do you see us contending with the new meta?
What can we do to earn our place at the Tier table?
HolyFalcon says... #3
We splash green. I do that drafting all the time. Then again Limited isn't Constructed and I don't play Modern....
February 7, 2015 5:29 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #4
the problem with Tasigur / brimaz / and many others are that they are legendary. That means not getting to jam more than 3 into your deck and that means they get to have more goyfs than us on board
Splashing for Green creates 2 very real problems
you now run a Very painful manabase and die to Blood Moon and Lightning Bolt.dek
Quality not quantity is key to consistency. I did a 4 color brew this last few days. Without Deathrite Shaman it's not happening.
February 7, 2015 5:33 p.m.
VampireArmy, Agreed. Im having similar problems. No real threats.. No Hordes...
February 7, 2015 5:35 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
As Mardu, you're already dead to Burn. Abzan has Kitchen Finks and Courser of Kruphix, which are probably better against burn than Lightning Helix. I'd rather concede that matchup or board in 10+ cards than lose to green cards all day long.
February 7, 2015 5:41 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #7
We also have Finks you along with every other white card that they do that neutralizes burn. Mardu handles burn just fine without green
February 7, 2015 5:45 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #8
Right, forgot that white is a real color. :)
I'd still think about giving up the Burn matchup to have answers to more things.
February 7, 2015 5:47 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
Sorry for the double post.
You can always just play a bunch of Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant and Kitchen Finks to win. Doesn't sound that bad.
February 7, 2015 5:47 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #10
Well yeah except the Blood Moon Problem. That's bound to be showing up in a lot more decks now as well
February 7, 2015 5:48 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
4 Abrupt Decay in the main? Seems alright to me. :)
February 7, 2015 5:57 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #12
That also defeats the purpose.
The idea is to work out not needing 4 out of 5 colors to make a deck. When you break it down, when you start splashing into green like that you end up asking yourself
why not just play abzan like everyone else?
why not jund?
What i'm trying to do here is solidify a foundation for Mardu as a deck. We've gotten so many new tools since Innistrad and I know somehow there's a way to use them to make a new Midrange deck that isn't green and can win
February 7, 2015 6:01 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #13
Hmm. Well, you can't have everything. I'd certainly board in stuff like Wear / Tear and such, and you've got your Maelstrom Pulse. If you are cognizant of Blood Moon against Twin, you will beat it.
February 7, 2015 6:04 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #14
I agree with you there. Right now the hardest part is solving the problem of not having a "goyf"
February 7, 2015 6:06 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #15
The key here I think is focusing on the color we're switching. The WB portion can overlap quite heavily with junk, and we have access to things like Lingering Souls in Mardu as well, which is sweet. So we now need to look at what does Red give us that Green doesn't, and then look at combinations of RW and RB to see what they gain over GW and GB. I'll do some brewing and try to get back with ideas, but I feel like Terminate and Blightning should play some role.
February 7, 2015 6:09 p.m.
The thing is that while RBW has answers to everything in the game, it doesn't have the creatures that green offers and because of that the game becomes harder to win. A lot of mainbosrd disruption and remova is necessary and even card advantage if possible (looking at Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena). Mardu just needs to survive and get out a big finisher - something it also somewhat lacks.
February 7, 2015 6:19 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
As far as it can tell our best options for finshing dudes come out at 4-6 mana within our colors
This plus bob is pain town that's why I enjoy butcher. 4 mana 5 damage with an ability to at times give back some of that life
February 7, 2015 6:21 p.m.
Batterskull tired and abused, prob wrong for the deck..
Blood Baron of Vizkopa too much win more, game should already be over..
Just doesnt feel immaculate like Jund/Junk pushing for close out T2/3..
February 7, 2015 6:26 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #20
A pleathora of Legendary stuff such as obzedat 2.0
we got '
new Sarkhan
batterskull i guess.
stuff like that
Walkers are an option too
February 7, 2015 6:28 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #21
I think a build focused on attrition and token value wouldn't be a bad idea, red is much better at that than green.
Another potential option is lean on the ability to apply direct damage and have actual good flyers, another thing green lacks.
I do think Butcher of the Horde needs to be the analog to Siege Rhino if we want to get anywhere though.
February 7, 2015 6:36 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #22
I've actually been working on that now. I almost feel like monastery mentor and young pyromancer should be played together in here and make some kind of midrange token deck that way. Hero of bladehold in on the action. Just means that running bob is a lot less good.
February 7, 2015 6:39 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #23
Maybe Tymaret, the Murder King? He's a bit slow and grindy, but that might be what's needed.
February 7, 2015 6:49 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #24
What do we use him for? 2 mana sac a creature shock doesn't seem worth
February 7, 2015 6:51 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #25
Probably not worth, just spitballing random things lol
February 7, 2015 6:58 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #26
Cheap beater? Call me crazy, but Gurmag Angler might be worth it. Non legendary, potentially cheap and a decent body. This thread has me brewing potential budget versions of a Mardu deck. If only just to mess around.
February 7, 2015 7:06 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #27
The Angler looks promising. I found a really good "jundy" list online. I'ma try it out and see how it feels
February 7, 2015 7:09 p.m.
I think a Mardu shell with 3 Young Pyromancer and playsets of Lightning Helix, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, and Lingering Souls could work. That's 19 cards and I think 23 lands could be good if you keep the curve low. After that, just throw in some supporting creatures or even a few walkers.
February 7, 2015 7:12 p.m.
Taking up the 3 drop spot is too important. It's much easier to fit in 2 CMC cards than 3 CMC.
February 7, 2015 7:18 p.m.
It's three mana and counterable but have you seriously considered Crackling Doom? it deals with Goyf which seems like an issue for Mardu, and it's a great response to them dropping Lily and making you sacrifice a creature.
February 7, 2015 7:21 p.m.
Something with Monastery Mentory, maybe Young Pyromancer, Lingering Souls, and some sac effects for opposing Goyf's? Does splashing blue for Git Probe make it a four color deck?
February 7, 2015 7:24 p.m.
I think one or two main and maybe one more in the side could work. Definitely a good option.
February 7, 2015 7:24 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #34
bigguy99, kyuuri117, VampireArmy so something like this:
Modern Mardu Midrange Experiment Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 6 VIEWSI just threw this together for the purposes of our discussion here. I think we could use a rough outline just for the sake of something to work with and assess Mardu colours in Modern. I limited Path to Exile to three and would even consider dropping it to 2. Dismember could become Terminate and I'm sure there are other cards that might be useful. The discard may also be a little heavy.
Keep in mind I was trying to limit the budget, but we could always throw in the big cards.
February 7, 2015 7:53 p.m.
I know this is a homebrew site for the most part and many people here like to play budget decks, but for the sake of this discussion I think we can't limit ourselves on price. We want a tier one Mardu deck and taking lesser options when we could do better is not how we get there.
That said, I havnt checked out the deck list yet. Will do so in a bit.
February 7, 2015 8:49 p.m.
Count me in. I've been playing Orzhov and Rakdos forever, so Mardu has always had my attention, even before KTK. Also, I'm sick to death of Tarmogoyf.
One route we could go is token abuse + sac outlet for various effects. Like Altar's Reap for card draw, Blood Artist for pain and so on. Red and white are incredibly efficient token spammers, so we might as well use all those tokens for something.
February 7, 2015 9:30 p.m.
kingofcramers says... #37
speaking of Butcher of the Horde, i actually built a modern deck around him! It's been surprisingly good for a home brew, winning 2 out of the past 3 events I've gone too at modern night at my local game store. Here's the list if anyone is interested: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/butcher-blins-and-burn/
February 7, 2015 10:48 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #38
let's keep deck linking to a minimum guys.
Don't want to invoke the wrath of the forum movers.
February 7, 2015 10:49 p.m.
Why not Seeker of the Way in the 2 drop slot? Plays well with removal and planeswalkers. Speaking of which, Liliana of the Veil is a shoe in, and Ajani Vengeant is grindy and stabilizing. Sorin, Solemn Visitor also provides value and life gain. I feel that Mardu Rock could do well with a superfriends approach.
February 7, 2015 10:50 p.m.
I've always felt Mardu would do best with an Aristocrats sort of build. Jam stuff like Blood Artist, Athreos, God of Passage, and Teysa, Orzhov Scion for value town and have some generators like Goblin Rabblemaster, Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor alongside some glad to die creatures like Bloodsoaked Champion and Doomed Traveler. Then you could have big threats in the form of Butcher of the Horde, Falkenrath Aristocrat, and Olivia Voldaren. Then just put that into a Mardu control shell with burn, discard, and removal. Seems like it could be alright.
February 7, 2015 10:56 p.m.
You know... With all the lifegain available, you could try testing with Ajani's Pridemate or Serra Ascendant as our goyf. Rules out bob tho...
February 7, 2015 10:56 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #42
I've actually decided on the grindy approach.
I've built all kinds of Mardu over the last few years and this one just feels good.
February 7, 2015 10:58 p.m.
Yea, it seems like that's what Mardu is best at. Are you using any walkers other than Lili? I could see Ajani in that type of deck but it seems a bit meh.
February 7, 2015 11 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #44
I'm using Ajani Vengeant and Chandra, Pyromaster
Ajani helps by locking down attackers or cutting off mana sources if need be
Chandra gives us extra draw, and a way to win if we ultimate also pinging over and over can get you pretty far. She's a 1-of though
February 7, 2015 11:02 p.m.
Im running with 3x lily, 2 x Ajani V, and 3 x Sorin 3.0, and im never sad to see any of them. Sorin is board presence if you have none, or pressure if you do.
February 7, 2015 11:06 p.m.
kingofcramers says... #46
Sorin, Solemn Visitor Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Chandra, Pyromaster have some nice synergy. Like people mentioned earlier, combining them with Liliana of the Veil and Ajani Vengeant to keep the board clear might be pretty sweet and grind out some nice midrange advantages
February 7, 2015 11:09 p.m.
Baltec I'd add Nether Traitor to that list of "glad to die creatures", btw. Blade of the Bloodchief can get ridiculous really fast when you have one Traitor on the board and one on the graveyard.
Twanicus I like Serra Ascendant, but I'm not sure about making lifegain the main focus of the deck. Burn+discard and tokens+sacrifice still seem more feasible to me. Or even sacrifice+discard (I can't be the only one who likes Nezumi Bone-Reader... right?).
February 7, 2015 11:09 p.m.
kingofcramers says... #48
do you guys think Elspeth, Knight-Errant is too slow or could she fit in?
February 7, 2015 11:10 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #49
forgot to mention 3 lili was part of that package
February 7, 2015 11:10 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #50
I think she's okay if you're going to do something with lots of tokens
Ryotenchi says... #2
I tried jamming Tasigur, the Golden Fang into that build yeh saw the other day... Liking it less and less... Faithless Looting could help feed him.. however I couldn't find anything that made it immaculate..
February 7, 2015 5:29 p.m.