Modern Broke Again!
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 10, 2015, 5:41 a.m. by ChiefBell
Hello everyone,
Today I have another peculiar rogue deck for review. This one can be found here
The deck is called 'Lotus Ultimatum', and as far as I can tell utilises fetchlands and Lotus Cobra to cast Cruel Ultimatum. I think the general idea is that by storing up uncracked fetches you generate a lot of mana in a single turn with Lotus Cobra. Two fetches generates 4 off cobra, for example. The deck uses this to cast Cruel Ultimatum. Conceivably on turn 4 I suppose.
What do you guys think?
branston567 says... #3
Summer Bloom seems like it could be a good inclusion to potentially rush out a turn 3 Cruel Ultimatum. Beyond that in a world of Remand, Spell Pierce and Mana Leak this seems tricky to pilot well but the potential pay off seems large, and it can also run as a green beatdown deck in the mean time before landing the ultimatum.
February 10, 2015 6:08 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #4
Hang on a minute. What if we just put Cruel Ultimatum into an Amulet Bloom deck?
February 10, 2015 6:15 a.m.
Rather than bloom, I would run Harrow as a turn 3 enabler. A single fetch + harrow is 4 land drops. It is basically Bloom Titan from a different angle. I do not like the alternate plan of midrange beats and lack of protection for the combo. You get to run a discard package, but not too much else in terms of protection.
Also, with only 2 cobras and 2 ultimatums and no way to draw cards, it seems that the lotus ultimatum is a secondary win condition.
4 color control is the more appropriate tag for this deck, but interesting tech nontheless.
February 10, 2015 6:20 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #6
The Mana base would have to be built an entirely different way to make it work and I feel like it wouldn't be as effective in the long run.
February 10, 2015 6:21 a.m.
branston567 says... #7
Another route you could take this is adding the Lotus Cobra, Cruel Ultimatum package into the Scapeshift deck as another win con, potential to go off earlier than the actual combo (play land for turn, 3 lands to cast Scapeshift float 2 more mana and fetch 5 lands getting 5 Lotus Cobra triggers play Cruel Ultimatum) probably too clunky all told but could help to accellerate the deck a bit against the quicker decks that it seems to have a problem with.
February 10, 2015 6:36 a.m.
The thing is, Ultimatum is not very good. Pact + hive Mind 1 mana less and only a single blue and achieves a lot more for these decks. Getting a creature back is useless when you play 8 of those as a Amulet Bloom deck, or 4 in Scapeshift. The opponent being 10-15 life will not affected much by the lifeloss. Drawing 3 cards can be done for much less mana, given how useless the other effects on the card are.
February 10, 2015 6:42 a.m.
branston567 says... #9
I was thinking more the primeshift/breachscape versions that i see more and more lately using Through the Breach to get out a Primeval Titan to get 4 extra lands on a turn (that also allows for a Cruel Ultimatum on that turn with a cobra out) they run more creatures and would get that bit more value from the Cruel Ultimatum
February 10, 2015 6:56 a.m.
Pact from hive mind is completely ineffective against the majority of junk decks that can easily pay the cost. Whilst T2 is an instant win, a T3 cast is payable with birds which is extremely effective and a T4 cast is just unequivocally easy to reach. Summoners pact is a great wincon against some decks but when the meta is primarily made up of a deck that can pay the cost it's not as good as it could be.
On the other hand forcing the opponent to discard 3 when you get to draw 3 is a 6 card advantage is almost always fantastic.
February 10, 2015 6:58 a.m.
Normally, Amulet bloom decks also run other pacts, at least pact of negation and black pact from the sb. Casting 2 pacts is always a viable win condition and pact wincon being worse against 1 deck does not make it worse vs every other part of the field. There is a reason it is the alt wincon.
Cruel Ultimatum is cruel, but it does not win games; for decks like Junk, it is normally more like Mild Setback.
February 10, 2015 7:02 a.m.
Haha. Mild setback. Especially as Dark Confidant is creeping back in.
I understand why the pacts are in there but they are a meta call and the deck is often criticised for devoting space to an alternate wincon that occasionally does literally nothing.
February 10, 2015 7:06 a.m.
greenkingwashere says... #13
Maybe there are other things that you can ramp into rater than cruel ultimanium. Perhaps Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker himself? It sounds silly but I think it would be a better win-con as modern's only planeswalker removal is burn.
February 10, 2015 7:18 a.m.
There are many things worth ramping into, the question usually comes down to how quickly and effectively you can reach those things. I know it sounds silly but Nicol Bolas' 8 mana cost is actually a lot harder to reach than Ultimatum's 7 mana cost. I'm a big fan of Primeval Titan simply because casting him accelerates you towards your next wincon due to his ETB effect.
February 10, 2015 7:45 a.m.
I'm going to tag VampireArmy and GlistenerAgent for their thoughts.
February 10, 2015 2:59 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #16
I like to see this sort of thing. 4 color control is becoming very accessible with the printing of the new fetches and the lack of silverbullet.dek. that being said, once people hop on the hatebear.dek wagon, we'll see a lot less of this kind of deck. It's fresh and interesting though which is a breath of fresh air
February 10, 2015 3:17 p.m.
How about a cobra combo into Ugin? he seems more reliably powerful.
bijschjdbcd says... #2
I was about to say that it seems week against Control, Turns out thats what it lost to.
Regardless it looks super fun and can play games in many different ways.
February 10, 2015 5:56 a.m.