Modern format without horizons
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 7, 2022, 10:15 a.m. by Divinity_infinitum
Ever since modern horizons 1 came out modern has been a different format and one thats been artificially engineered by wotc into what it has became, with modern horizons 2 release compounding this and further changing the format dramatically. We all know that this has changed modern into an unofficial rotating format which goes against everything modern used to be. I personally got into modern because I didnt want my deck to rotate and become worthless. Obviously new releases allowed you to upgrade your deck and build new ones but it was slower and more organic. I just wanted to know whether people genuinely like that the format is how it is at the moment but more importantly I wanted to see whether there is a section of the community who play or would like to play modern with the horizons sets being illegal and just using standard sets like how it was. Is pioneer the only format like this now or is there a traditional modern format people are still playing?
wallisface says... #3
The biggest issue i’m seeing with Horizons is that its pushed the cost of a modern deck up significantly. Outside of that though, these sets have improved the modern format to a much healthier one. Prior to MH2, modern had a large issue of games feeling like “two ships passing in the night”, because they largely were.
The idea of wotc pumping out more horizons sets does feel a little scary, though spacing these far enough apart (3-4 years?) might help to keep the format feeling less-rotaty. If wotc want to keep pushing Horizons, and so modern as a format, they’ll have to eventually acknowledge the price-point of entry, and do enough reprints to make the format affordable (so that they can keep selling new Horizons sets).
February 7, 2022 1:30 p.m.
wallisface says... #4
I’ll also add, the best thing for moderns health is probably for standard-sets to stay at their current power level. Sets like War, Eldraine, Threros, and Ikoria each individually packed enough power to “rotate” modern each on their own. Modern will be in a better (and less-rotational) state having MH rotate it every X years, rather than standard rotate it every 3 months
February 7, 2022 2 p.m.
To the question of whether I like what the format is now, I would have to say that I do enjoy the gameplay of Modern a lot right now. For all the dark times brought on by Hogaak and Astrolabe, and the rising cost of Horizons staples, I agree with the above in that I think the gameplay of Modern is very good and tight right now, and a lot of the interaction provided in Horizons sets is the reason for that.
Also, while you're seeing a lot of Ragavan, Saga, and Incarnations in the top decks I think the last few years of Standard are actually deceptively impactful. Heliod Combo and Saheeli Combo are both based on Standard cards, Expressive Iteration propping up Izzet decks, Companions, Omnath, T3feri... Probably yet more format-changing cards than I can think of right now.
Pioneer is probably closer to what you're looking for, especially if they make a few more bans to tamp down on the combo decks and Winota.
February 7, 2022 3:29 p.m.
Wizards finally realized how big modern is, and they hate that they don't make as much money off it so they're turning it into Horizons Block to keep people opening new packs.
But people are having fun playing it, so it's definitely not going to change.
This whole thing feels very much like when WoW: Cataclysm came out and it was like "oh, so my favorite game is dead now."
Wizards replaced Modern with Wizards Modern,
I don't want to be one of those "the world is ending" boomers, and you can still fit some of your old favorite cards into decks,
But there is just such a thick band of "if you're not playing these you're stupid" cards that comes with a format drawing so heavily on two (and one day three...) sets
February 7, 2022 4:50 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #7
I won't lie and pretend I'm not nostalgic for OG modern; I can remember the first big tournament results and immediate bans that followed. But, modern is always going to be "rotational" compared to something like EDH or legacy, and the current meta is very healthy, so I'm not mad.
February 7, 2022 5 p.m.
I think I'm mostly mad at how fast it happened, it made it feel like more a cash grab than a curation
February 7, 2022 5:08 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #9
Everything WotC does anymore is a cash grab. I haven't played at sanctioned events in ages, but at least we ended up with a healthy meta. I'd never go back to modern in paper, but I could see myself getting a rental service to try and compete on MtGO, at least.
February 7, 2022 9:02 p.m.
I dont think Modern horizons sets are the cause for the feeling of Modern becoming a rotating format... I think the real culprit is Standard has had ALOT of powerful sets over the years... like ever since the great reboot with Magic Origins it feels like the game just keeps getting access to better/stronger/value cards.
Kird Ape and Wild Nacatl and Loam Lion just aren't that impressive these days.
February 8, 2022 12:47 a.m.
Divinity_infinitum says... #11
Thing is I dont know if I do prefer modern now. Ragavan, cascade decks, dragons rage channeler, jund, toolbox decks have just got so much better in the last few years and yes i get that the new poweful sets like eldraine didnt help but modern is just moving so fast why not just bring back extended yk? At least also have the option for a modern format sans horizons.
February 8, 2022 5:06 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #12
There's just not enough players interested to support a "real" modern-but-different format, sadly. And it would be less profitable for WotC. It would also keep the price of singles from standard expensive for longer, if it did become popular, which commander players would dislike.
The people playing modern are probably going to keep playing it, and if they don't, they're probably moving into EDH instead of alternative formats. I mean, that's what I did.
February 8, 2022 11:17 a.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #13
wallisface: if they were to do modern horizons every 3-4 years, they'd have to stop doing "half cycles" in each one. MH2 brought enemy fetchland reprints, and now we're waiting on MH3 for the ally reprints.
i'll still play modern, but i'm also moving into pioneer and pauper.
February 9, 2022 12:02 a.m.
wallisface says... #14
DragonWolf420 as we’ve seen from the first 2 sets, there’s not enough slot available in the sets for more than 6-7ish lands in the rare/mythic slots. In any case, doing half-cycles are fine - wotc print enough non-standard sets each year to be able to complete cycles in other product if they wanted to.
February 9, 2022 2:23 a.m. Edited.
TheoryCrafter says... #15
I'm okay with Modern Horizons and any other non-standard sets provided the card is available in paper and is playable outside of EDH and it's variants. I just wish every 3-5 years WoTC would just do a few sanctioned Modern No-Bans tournaments to gage how the meta game would look and give players a chance to show how to compete in spite of it.
February 9, 2022 10:13 a.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #16
wallisface: they could, but if its only secret lairs and modern horizons, then 3-4 years is too long to wait for reprints. the price drop on those fetches was significant, and its just not fair to the players who need ally fetches. Verdant Catacombs was once one of the most expensive, now it's half the price of Wooded Foothills. and they could just force more rares/mythics if they want to.
TheoryCrafter: theres been no ban list modern tournaments, and if i recall, the winner was Eye of Ugin eldrazi. i'd imagine affinity would be a top deck as well.
February 9, 2022 2:16 p.m.
wallisface says... #17
DragonWolf420 There’s a million options they can do. I’m fairly sure they’ll smatter other expensive cards through other supplemental sets. But, in any case, the company profits more from keeping things like fetches expensive - i don’t ever see them printing them with enough regularity to have them fall below $25-$35. The last time enemy-fetches were printed prior to MH2 was 5 years before that, so I don’t believe wotc have any drive to make these cards affordable (they sell more product by keeping particular cards like these sought after).
February 9, 2022 2:28 p.m.
kotadragon says... #18
All I read from the naysayers is "mummy, why doesn't my foiled out tron 3 turn everyone before they can anymore" xD I think modern is in a fantastic state as killing each other by turn 3 is kind of the rule. No matter what cards get released. But the broad spectrum of lists available makes for different interactions w/ other decks. Rather than packing your artifact removal and leylines, cause that was all you needed.
February 11, 2022 8:58 a.m.
Divinity_infinitum says... #19
kotadragon You see I personally preferred modern when it was grindier and more "fair" as you had to play through a game rather than "i comboed off before you did". And yeah they might smatter in a few cards in supplemental sets but how often is ragavan or esper sentinel or the evoke elemental cycles be reprinted to be more affordable? Modern deck prices just go up and up and up.
February 11, 2022 10:42 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #20
The only true combo deck seeing competitive play is Belcher, and it's not that good. You could sort of consider Hammertime, Amulet, and Cascade combo decks, though. 3 of the top 4 decks are grindy, though.
February 11, 2022 11:49 a.m.
kotadragon says... #21
Grubbernaut oh well. Modern is pricey. So is legacy. Play Arena I think is the key. I have to get two more wrenn and six
February 27, 2022 2:23 p.m.
I asked a similar question a couple of weeks ago; I took a year off Magic right after War of the Spark and didn't recognize the Modern I returned to. As above, some people suggested Pioneer, which I've been looking into, and it really does feel like it hits a lot of the Modern I remember.
The second option I got is to adapt, update, and overcome, and this is the path I'm trying to take. This will eat up time and money, but I believe that the current stability of Modern will last for a while, if Kamigawa is representative of the upcoming sets and there's no direct word of MH3 in the immediate future. This might be a naive way to get think about it, but someone at WotC had to think that Modern was getting too shaken up, and ensured it could settle down for a bit.
Option three is to step out of competitive play, and recreate Modern without Horizons with your group. In competitive play, you can't ask people to not use their best cards. You might be able to do that with your friends.
February 27, 2022 2:48 p.m.
Dead_Blue_ says... #23
Personally I’ll take MH2 Modern over Eldrazitron modern, holy f that was a parasite deck.
KL185 says... #2
Pioneer really is the purest format. That is until "Pioneer Masters" spontaneously spawns into existence with absolutely no one asking for it. You could maybe play Premodern? It's not at all like the vanilla Modern you're thinking of but it's still something. I could accept modern in the state it's in as long as MH3 doesn't ever come around -- which it probably will. Can't wait for another ordeal like Hogaak.
February 7, 2022 12:10 p.m.