modern price discusion

Modern forum

Posted on May 7, 2020, 12:47 p.m. by aaron_the_great

Do you think that modern might become to expensive because the modern masters series is probably not going to be a thing in the future and fetchlands not being sufficiently reprinted

Enemy fetchlands will be in the commander bonus product this fall. It's confirmed in the Secret Lair Ultimate Edition announcement.

Modern is already too expensive, and Pioneer's inception is proof that WOTC is willing to let modern die. But note that in the last few months modern has actually gotten way cheaper. Tons of format staples have tanked in price because of Pioneer. Snapcaster Mage cut in half. Aether Vial is about 2/3 its old price. Basically every staple has fallen in price.

Modern suffers from very poor format management. It has always had problems due to proactive strategies being far better than reactive strategies. Sometimes it's just a proactive goldfish slugfest. Sometimes it's a battle of the sideboards. Depends on the particular meta. But players are very rarely happy with the meta.

Legacy is good because there are sufficient strong answers (named Force of Will) to keep the format balanced. Modern may have less broken stuff, but it does not have the same quality of balancers to make the game work.

May 7, 2020 4:54 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #3

It is worth noting that Modern has a vocal minority who like to complain about EVERYTHING in the format that isn’t literal Jund, so the results are a bit skewed. It’s really difficult for WoTC to know what actually needs a ban and what certain members of the community just don’t want to adapt to.

May 8, 2020 12:13 a.m.

PitaGryphon says... #4

pioneer is not "proof" that wotc is letting modern die. never let anyone tell you it is. its simply another way to play the game. it lets people still use the cards they bought for standard, in an environment that hasn't reached modern levels of power yet where those old standard cards would be obsolete. i'm not sure how toolmaster can say pioneer is causing modern cards to tank, unless they mean that ppl are just leaving modern altogether. any card used in both formats will go up instead of down, and that will likely balance out all the cards toolmaster mentioned going down. i actually havent seen Aether Vial used in a long time except my own deck.

May 8, 2020 12:59 a.m.

Aether Vial is a 4-of in Humans, which is probably a tier 2 deck right now. It's also still used in less popular death and taxes decks, but those likely don't contribute much to the price.

Modern staples have absolutely tanked in value. Goblin Guide, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Blackcleave Cliffs (and the rest of the scars of mirrodin fast lands), Noble Hierarch, Cavern of Souls, Death's Shadow, Wurmcoil Engine, Karn Liberated, Arcbound Ravager (rip), Inkmoth Nexus... the list goes on. All of those cards have fallen in value between War of the Spark and now. Some of them (Arcbound Ravager) have lost value because of bannings. All of these cards are still format staples in a top deck based on mtggoldfish rankings right now. This is the majority of the valuable format staples that are not pioneer-legal and have not been recently reprinted.

Some cards have gone up in the last few months, like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and the enemy fetch lands. But those are the exceptions rather than the norm, and their price increases are likely not due to modern.

Of course pioneer staples have gone up. And they have offset the decrease of modern-only cards. But that doesn't change that the modern-only staples are decreasing in value, and this is a sure indicator that people are leaving the format and that the format is dying.

Modern was originally intended to be a format where people could viably play cards that have recently rotated out of standard. Pioneer has most definitively taken over that role, and for good reason. Rotated standard decks were not modern-viable anymore and hadn't been for years. But pioneer is literally younger modern and it has absolutely replaced modern as the accessible non-rotating format.

May 8, 2020 2:32 a.m.

Indeed, Modern is dying. And indeed, Pioneer didn't kill Modern. These are 2 separate events happening at the same time.

Pioneer is to Modern what Modern is to Legacy. New players nowadays want to capitalize on their Standard staples that rotated out and not invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in a format as complex as Modern. It's logical and WotC did a great job adapting by creating Pioneer, imo (even if I find Pioneer not interesting at all because of the rather limited cardpool).

For the very reason ToolmasterOfBrainerd stated, Modern is un ugly format for most pro (wannabe) players because it's so quickly unbalanced. Why? Because it lacks the relevant answers. Everytime. The moments where you have an actual balanced meta are very rare, so rare that I can't even remember when was the last time it felt like all decks had a shot. You regularly have oppressive eras often generated by a combo of some sort: Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, Krark-Clan Ironworks, the Eldrazi winter and more recently Urza, Lord High Artificer and Lurrus of the Dream-Den. That's how the format is, and whether or not it's a good thing is up to each and every player (my personal opinion is that it's a problem because you either join them or lose to them). Of course, sideboard can help but it only contains 15 cards and some combos are nearly unstoppable. You don't want to commit your extra 15 cards to countering one strategy; it's not what a sideboard is supposed to do.

Now to answer your question aaron_the_great:

  • Yes, I think on the long-term the format will become more expensive, as expensive as Legacy is now to new players. It's true that the Modern staples lost A LOT of value recently, but 20-30$ for a card is still a lot of money for many. Just give it time, if WotC stops reprints the cards will eventually rise in price.

  • No, I don't think fetchlands will be an issue as they are not as defining as they once were for the format and we can expect reprints here and there :)

May 8, 2020 5:58 a.m.

WizardOfTheNorthernCoast you make good points.

I will add that in my opinion, legacy is not dying and won't die anytime soon. Is it a small community? Of course. But the gameplay is so fun that players won't let it die. And the players that play it are so heavily invested that it's unlikely they'll loose interest in the format unless something drastic happens.

May 8, 2020 11:11 a.m.

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