My thoughts on the Modern Banned List and how I think it should change.
Modern forum
Posted on Dec. 18, 2015, 6:39 p.m. by CheeseBro
The Modern Banned List. Everyone is always arguing about how it should change. This should get Banned! This should get unbanned! seriously its annoying, But casting my vote among the community is yet inevitable.
My Thoughts.
I think the banned list is good, making sure the format is not Broken completely. yet, some cards dont really seem that they belong there.
Changes
Bannings
Summer Bloom: This card is Bonkers. it enables crazy combos in Amulet Bloom, but is also just downright amazing. It breaks the curve, allowing you to play 6-drops way earlier than you are supposed to be able to. I think it should be banned.
I think the rest is fine.
Unbannings
Ancient Den and the Artifact Land cycle: People argue that affinity would be broken with this, but I disagree. Affinity has no trouble getting out artifatcs fast and having metal craft for Mox Opal and Etched Champion, so i dont really think adding more artifact lands would really help. after all, most affinity cards are colorless, and have Glimmervoid, Mox Opal, and Springleaf Drum. for colored mana. as for artifact lands, affinity already runs Darksteel Citadel, Blinkmoth Nexus, and Inkmoth Nexus. A few more lands that would even be that effective wouldnt help that much.
Dread Return: I understand how this is good, but really? the only decent reanimator deck (other than living end) that actually sees play is Gifts Ungiven. I dont really think Gifts Ungiven will want to run it because they dont really play creatures before reanimation. Would it spring up new archetypes? I dont think so. There are better reanimator spells in modern and really this is not that abusable.
Glimpse of Nature: Why is this even banned? Yes, you can generate some massive card draw in creature heavy decks like elves. Also, it is good in the 0-drop storm decks, but that is legacy. Modern does not have the tutors, rituals, and storm cards to support it unless you play Temur storm with this, which would not work at all.
Green Sun's Zenith: This is a great card. But we also have Chord of Calling! It has convoke basically rendering it the same cost, its an instant, and can get any creature! Im not saying Chord is better, but I just dont think Green Sun's Zenith should be banned, especially considering the fact that NO decks run Chord of Calling.
Punishing Fire: Really? Really? This is abusable with Grove of the Burnwillows and that is about it. even with it, it is a VERY slow combo. with it, you can get a Amazing... Wait for it... 2 damage per turn! Isnt that great? NO. any deck can either dirupt you, or easily outrace you. also, you have no guarantee that you will draw it. you can have land tutors such as Sylvan Scrying, but really you cant tutor up Punishing Fire effectively.
Sword of the Meek: Yes, it combos with Thopter Foundry. I am aware. But really? You get 1 1/1 thopter with flying for every one mana you spend. that not that great, especially considering that every deck runs boardwipes and artifact hate in sideboard. you can get some nice value, but overall, it is not worth the effort of building up the combo and protecting it.
yeah, so those are my thoughts on the Modern Banned List. Discuss!
APPLE01DOJ says... #2
T1 Thoughtseize Summer Bloom T2 Abrupt Decay Amulet of Vigor T3 repeat process and Ghost Quarter Karoo land or get Liliana of the Veil online.
I've lost to Bloom too but it's not that hard to beat.
December 23, 2015 11:02 a.m.
ChiefBell The difference between the two decks though is that if you buy Amulet Bloom, you're buying a deck that is basically without staples. How many cards out of UR Treasure Cruise era Delver are no longer played in Modern? It was such a safe investment because Delver, Snapcaster and Remand aren't going to get banned more than likely and will be playable until the end of time. Amulet, Summer Bloom and Azusa aren't.
December 23, 2015 11:04 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #4
@arcdevil: Quite possible. There was an interesting article about the turn four rule on Modern Nexus that points out the circumstances under which stuff has been banned in the past. They suggest that having a consistent win before T4 isn't necessarily enough.
If Bloom becomes a tier 1 deck, the a ban is an imminent threat. For the time being it's probably safe, though that's not 100% guaranteed.
December 23, 2015 11:10 a.m.
awphutt - Disagree slightly. Delver will always be a T2 staple, but never T1. The risk of treasure cruise banning was real for the deck, leaving people with only Mana Leak, Serum Visions, and Remand as T1 playable cards. Similarly Bloom lends you Primeval Titan, Serum Visions, Ancient Stirrings and a few others. The two are equatable as far as I'm concerned. It's just that Bloom has a random mish mash of cards whereas Delver can just become Twin with a little investment. They both give you value.
The T4 win isn't a hard and fast rule for inconsistent decks. I'm pretty sure Infect can beat it. I'm pretty sure Storm can still beat it. I'm pretty sure Grishoalbrand can also beat it.
December 23, 2015 11:29 a.m.
ChiefBell Is Primeval Titan played in any tier 1 decks outside of Bloom? I know it sees play in like GR/Jund Scapeshift decks, but not any tier decks outside of Bloom as far as I know. Nor Ancient Stirrings really. It sees play in, what, Lantern Control?
You did miss out on Delver getting you Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage though, the latter being the big one in terms of value.
December 23, 2015 5:21 p.m.
Oh yeah that's true! Forgot about those two.
Stirrings is huge in Tron.
PrimeTime is just seen is random ramp decks. Awesome creature.
December 23, 2015 5:29 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #9
I just wanted to mention that this person proposed unbanning Glimpse of Nature and the artifact lands at the same time... That's what modern needs turn 1 Tree of Tales into Glimpse of Nature into... I believe win? ALSO I also just wanted to point out that Legacy affinity is a deck, and it can compete against decks like Miracles, D&T, and Lands, off the back of the artifact lands. The artifact lands are really good, allowing the disciple+Ravager double whammy is just insane.
December 24, 2015 5:11 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #10
Yeah, I just wanted to add that the deck that won that first MNBL tournament was Affinity. Not some busted-ass combo deck... Affinity. The artifact lands absolutely need to be banned.
December 24, 2015 10:56 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
Well, Affinity does happen to fall under the category of "busted-ass combo deck". :)
It's mostly because of Skullclamp, by the way.
December 24, 2015 10:59 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #12
I'd consider it aggro-combo at most, and you get what I mean.
Obviously Skullclamp is the main culprit there, but the artifact lands are absolutely enablers; and unlike clamp, I've seen someone in this thread suggest they could be unbanned.
Affinity is strong enough without either of those things being available to it.
December 24, 2015 11:16 p.m.
really I would agree with 'most' of the bannings.
I only disagree with banning Birthing Pod and Deathrite Shaman.
What needs to be banned in my opinion are infinite loopers like kiki-jiki and Splinter Twin. They only inhibit strategy rather than promote where pod and shamen were inspiring in strategy.
when dealing with infinities: it doesn't matter how genius your deck design was in gaining life, mass producing powerful tokens, etc, when the infinity swings you die. This means all cool combos go down the drain: thus limiting strategy.
It always seems like I make a great deck and then get frustrated that it won't win because I have to dedicate a section of my deck to survive against kiki and twin decks. They are in the way.
December 25, 2015 6:35 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #14
Please explain how specifically infinite combos are worse than any other game ending combo.
December 25, 2015 6:39 p.m.
So let's say I have a deck that I labored over so that it combos and gets me like 30 life by turn 3 and a nice creature force. I been beating the tar on my enemy to his last life since turn 1 and he get's lucky and draws his Splinter Twin and combos for X dmg to kill me with a Mana Leak to protect it. His deck was not creative, it had no sophisticated or interesting combos. Just waited and waited and oh hey I drew what I needed and win.
Where my deck was a well done non-potshot deck that would normally have a close battle with another top tier deck.
might as well play against land destruction.
dunno how spacific you want me to go. its just mathimatics. an entire deck that worked for an impressive 256 life is still overcome by a two card combo with splinter twin or kiki. The ratios of the 60 card deck vs a 2 card combo is a bit stark...
December 25, 2015 6:50 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
It's not really fair to call a combo deck "unsophisticated" or "uninteresting". Combo decks are a part of Magic, and should be respected for what they are. Your deck isn't necessarily a "well done non-potshot deck" just because it doesn't have a combo. Combo decks in themselves make some sacrifices (frequently, playing worse cards that just work with a combo kill).
You've got an impressive board, well done. Your opponent also did something impressive: they beat you through it. Both players did what their deck intended to do, but it just so happened that your opponent drew a card that he put in his deck for a certain purpose and won. Boohoo.
I think you need to learn to consider the opposite side of the coin. As a person who (presumably) enjoys creature strategies, you should understand that people have fun through assembling combos. Some combo decks are "all-in", meaning that they are focused on killing you quickly with their combo, but others (including the Twin decks that you seem to hate so much) allow for plenty of enjoyable and interactive games.
I don't know what you mean by "just mathematics". There is no such thing as "the ratios of the 60 card deck vs a 2 card combo". They also have sixty cards.
Finally, proper grammar and punctuation are valuable.
December 25, 2015 6:58 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #18
There's nothing wrong with infinite combos. A win is a win, and assembling a combo takes skill just like sequencing plays properly in an aggro deck.
If you feel like it's cheap, there's a very good chance you're not playing properly against it. Any good deck in the format has a gameplan against Twin, and demands that you know how to execute that plan.
December 25, 2015 7:21 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #19
Deathrite Shaman was uninspiring in strategy. It wrecked graveyard strategies. And as more sets are printed Birthing Pod would only get better. Consequently, Wizards would have to design standard cards so that Pod wouldn't be overwhelmingly and increasingly better in modern.
December 25, 2015 7:23 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #20
Birthing Pod got banned because (As we have now seen) it single-handedly suppressed a massive swath of creature based decks (Zoo, Tribals, CoCo, Collected, etc.). Deathrite Shaman got banned because Jund doesn't need more toys, and since it was one of the more offensive value cards in the format, It turn one allowed a turn two Liliana of the Veil with only one Black mana source, then late-game was a situationaly better Grim Lavamancer. That much edge in utility wasn't something the format needed. Insofar as what could come back, Ancestral Recall has kind of... lost it's scare factor, especially since its so bad against Remand which is one of the most popular counter spells in the format, though I do see how it could cause problems when returned to decks like Twin. Beyond that Sword of the Meek... really just isn't even vaguely scary anymore. It's infamous for being part of a 3 card combo, that can be disrupted by Kolaghan's Command or any of the other already - sideboarded artifact hate cards. Honestly though, I would Like to see a Mental Misstep unbanning. Which I know at first seems ludicrous, I mean it's banned in legacy, and a vintage staple! That being said, in modern it counters... what? Thoughtseize, Lightning Bolt, actually quite a fair amount of utility spells, but that being said, it's far from broken or back breaking. If anything it would increase the interactivity of the format. I understand that the power of Mental Misstep lies in the fact it can be run in any deck, but in a fetch-shock format, it would hardly be an auto include in every deck. In fact, off the top of my head would a single deck even really want Mental Misstep mainboard? I feel like this cards modern ban is more out of the fact that it was so powerful in legacy and Vintage, and less that it was actually a force to be reckoned with in modern. If I'm missing somthing here please explain, but so far as I can tell its a counterspell that can be run in any deck, but only shuts down a select range of utility spells. I mean it hurts burn... but that's hardly a tragedy, and still costs two life so it's not that great.
December 25, 2015 7:33 p.m.
I mean, put mental misstep in modern and watch aggro decks disappear overnight.
Also, how on earth is Remand at all effective against Ancestral Recall? A card with half its mana cost. Remand is a tempo play and works best with high mana cost cards. Ancestral recall is about the cheapest card blue could cast. I just don't even know why ANYONE wants to give blue that kind of card advantage. Madness for the format. Madness. Imagine Twin or Scapeshift with both Mental Misstep (counter aggro and thoughtseize) AND recall. Dear god.
December 25, 2015 7:38 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #22
Whoops, pro strat miss-linking, I meant Ancestral Vision
December 25, 2015 7:39 p.m.
Oh visions? Yeah that card isn't too fantastic. It's only kind of broken, and useless in a lot of situations.
December 25, 2015 7:46 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #24
Visions would probably make Twin too good, but it would give Scapeshift and Control a nice boost.
Also, misstep is definitely a no-go for the format. Like never going to be unbanned.
I do think modern should have something like Daze. A counterspell for when you're tappedout, but that requires you be playing a deck that could otherwise run counterspells. It has a hefty cost because it de-ramps you and your opponent will be able to pay 
fairly often, but it is still really strong for building tempo and controlling the early game. I don't know if it would be too powerful, but with Shocklands being the primary source of Islands, it would certainly be less powerful than in Legacy.
December 25, 2015 8:06 p.m.
I'm going to assume you don't ever build your own decks or else this would be extremely obvious. You say card X should be unbanned because there aren't any current decks that could use it. Or, card Y should be unbanned because the only deck that would want it doesn't need it. These statements are laughable and reflect how little of an understanding you actually have about what your talking about. I realize that the modern format feels like it has an extremely small card pool because competitively everyone is playing one of the top 3 or 4 decks and everyone is playing with what is essentially the same cards as everyone else, but cards on the ban list aren't strictly there because they make current decks broken. In reality, most of these cards are on the ban list because of their interactions with cards you don't even think about because you haven't seen the deck list online.
For example, just because you say the only decent reanimator decks don't want Dread Return doesn't mean a.) your right, b.) that new decks won't, or c.) an old broken deck won't return. Especially since Golgari Grave-Troll was unbanned not that long ago. Trust me when I say that you DO NOT know more than WotC about how to run the game they've created and maintained for over 20 years. You and thousands of others just think you do.
January 16, 2016 8:53 p.m.
MY WISHES CAME TRUE!!!!!
Splinter Twin is banned!!
I posted 6 posts ago here how much I hated that stupid thing. Finally, now the meta can expand. Bloom titan decks took a hit too but I agree with the rational for banning Summer Bloom.
You know what this means? I can whip out all my deck ideas that are really good. They will do good because there's no turn 4 infinity and turn 3 pact to stop it. Other people like me will also play more interesting decks. Oh man, I'm more back into magic than ever because of this.
January 16, 2016 11:15 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #27
Combo In Modern
2011-2016
Maybe Somebody Will Miss You, Tron and Affinity Sure Won't
ChiefBell says... #1
It's very clearly not being banned. It doesn't put up results because it's easy to hate on, not because people are scared of banning. We were scared of treasure cruise ruining delver, that didn't stop 15% of the entire modern meta becoming delver.
It's not keeping a low profile for any other reason except that a) it's not totally consistent and b) it's easy to hate on.
December 23, 2015 10:52 a.m.