No Bitterblossom...
Modern forum
Posted on May 23, 2015, 7:40 p.m. by pumpkinwavy
Why are there basically no modern decks running Bitterblossom? The most obvious home for it would be b/w tokens, and that doesnt play it. Bitterblossom is such a powerful card that it would seem like every black deck would run it, yet not even Abzan does. Why?
It's slow, not very impactful and deals you damage in a format full of burn
May 23, 2015 8:26 p.m.
Another question is of its not being played in modern then why is it 40 dollars?
May 23, 2015 8:39 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #5
Fairseas So, so true...
It's not that it's a bad card, because it's not. It's really good. But not in a meta full of aggro and burn. B/W Tokens, which is weak in the current meta, uses Sorin instead because of life. Though let me summon xzzane, because he knows a lot more about this than me XD
May 23, 2015 8:44 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #6
Even in my more slow and controlling deck that can deal with aggro pretty well there are times i just don't want to see that card. Like the nature of it is you want to play 3-4 so that you see it in your first few turns but you can't actually have that many on the board ever or you risk killing yourself.
May 23, 2015 8:49 p.m.
@Fairseas It's still recovering from the absolutely crazy hype that it had upon unbanning. Much of the demand is artificial. Also, keep in mind that Bitterblossom is also one of the best cards for stax EDH since it produces permanents with minimal effort that you can just toss away. That also bumps up the price a tad.
May 23, 2015 8:50 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
Oh and on the subject of price, it has what a large group of collectors would consider to be one of the most beautiful artworks in the game.
May 23, 2015 8:53 p.m.
That makes sense. I just got one off puca for my Ertai, the Corrupted for obvious reasons lol. I just couldn't believe it was that much.
May 23, 2015 9:04 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #11
It's only good in one deck, which is BW Tokens, but it only improves good matchups, and weakens others. It's a risk/reward card to add, but also costs a lot of money, and the likely pay-off will be disappointing. It's safer to build a closer-to-home BW Tokens deck without Bitterblossom.
May 23, 2015 9:44 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #12
You're forgetting the obvious faeries :) Which sees almost no play, alas.
May 23, 2015 9:46 p.m.
ModernCentralPublic says... #14
Because bitterblossom is a terrible card that is only playable in EDH. If you don't see why its so bad, then try playing with it against any tier 1 modern deck. It will quickly become obvious as to what makes it bad.
The only reason people think its good is because fairies were really good in standard a long time ago and they used bitterblossom. It was also on the ban list for modern for a while, which was hilarious, considering the fact that it would have seen about as much play as Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
May 23, 2015 11:39 p.m.
I would rather have a basic forest in my tokens deck than freaking bitterblossom. Its basically worse than nothing.
May 23, 2015 11:42 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #16
ModernCentralPublic and Tiktacy Do you even modern bruh?
May 23, 2015 11:42 p.m. Edited.
It improves already good matches and hinders worse matchups, bw token speaking. It does see play though, as it is good with solemn visitor.
May 24, 2015 12:07 a.m.
ModernCentralPublic says... #18
I play every competitive REL tournament within a 70 mile radius for modern, so to answer your question yes. Do YOU even modern?
May 24, 2015 12:08 a.m.
If you have played with bitterblossom then you would know how bad it is, try it, I dare you. Clearly, somebody isn't very up to date on the metagame.
May 24, 2015 12:10 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #20
Put away your anecdotes children, have some Facts
According to MTGGoldfish
it's commonly played in :Deadguy Ale (4 of) / Fae (1)
79 matches for decks played on MTGTOP8
May 24, 2015 12:21 a.m.
I personally plan on buying a playset if it drops low enough in price, just to have fun and brew around with. It DOES have absolutely beautiful art and I have always enjoyed playing with tokens.
I find the archetypes are stupendously over rated in a lot of the meta out there. Do something you want to do and play the crap out of it, adjust your play style yourself, and net deck for ideas. It's amazing what you can make work.
May 24, 2015 3:33 a.m.
Dalektable says... #22
It's played in some versions of BW Tokens, I prefer that version myself. A group ran BW tokens at PT Fate Reforged with medium success boasting a full four copies and as others have said alongside Sorin. It's also good with Auriok Champion, which I think is a great main deck choice for Tokens right now.
May 24, 2015 8:42 a.m.
Auriok is fantastic for tokens in this meta. I'm of the personal opinion that tokens is better without blossom though; I dont like how it only helps in matchups that we're already good against in the first place.
May 24, 2015 8:53 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #24
ModernCentralPublic and Tiktacy I don't want to get into an argument here, but you can't say a card is bad based on the Meta. In the current burn/aggro meta, any card besides shocks and fetches that loses you life is probably not a great choice. That doesn't meant the Bitterblossom is a bad card though. I would try playing with it in Fae or Tokens, both legitimate competitive strategies.
May 24, 2015 9:04 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #25
Thanks for all the replies everyone! I was under the impression that Bitterblossom was a complete bomb that basically single handedly wins. But I guess there's more debate on how good it really is.
Anyway, basically what I'm asking is what decks do run Bitterblossom (very few it seems)? And why do some black decks leave it out? If its played in b/w midrange, then why never in abzan? And maybe this is just me not knowing the modern meta, but is burn and aggro THAT prevalent that they are pushing out Bitterblossom?
May 24, 2015 10:50 a.m.
It's not even that burn is pushing it out per say, it's just has a lot of flaws that make other cards better choices for a deck.
May 24, 2015 11:03 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #27
I posted two links of decks that use it if you want to look at that
May 24, 2015 11:04 a.m.
VampireArmy - Gets the paradoxical idea. You want 4 to ensure you get it early but can't play multiples due to life loss. That makes it very, very tricky to build around and often multiples are just dead cards. Not good.
Also a lot of creatures have trample now so it's not even that good at blocking.
May 24, 2015 12:04 p.m.
I dunno. Bitterblossom is poorly positioned in modern as everyone pointed out. Someone asked why it's 40$, to that I answer three things:
-Sick Art
-Played in EDH
-It's worth keeping on your radar as a card that could potentially be breakable in the right context
Aaaand I've nothing to say more that hasn't been said already.
May 25, 2015 2:44 p.m.
ModernCentralPublic says... #30
As much as I hate bitterblossom, I would hang up a framed picture of that artwork in a heartbeat if I could. That artwork is almost as cool as the modern masters Dark Confidant artwork.
May 25, 2015 3:52 p.m.
The life loss matters way less than folks seem to think. Sure, losing life against burn sucks on a level of you giving them a free spell essentially, but getting to ride a single card as your win condition means you can spend the rest of the time disrupting. The format was way more aggressive when Bitterblossom first got unbanned with all the Wild Nacatl Zoo decks also in the mix. Burn isn't what's pushing it out of the metagame.
The big issue with Bitterblossom is that it takes turns to really kick in. If you could guarantee Turn One discard into Turn Two Bitterblossom every game that card would be great, but the reality is that you don't always draw it by Turn Two. You don't even get the value of a Lingering Souls front half until a full two turns later. That's well enough for a Standard or Extended level, but Modern has proven that if your aren't interacting with the board early and often it better be because you're winning the game through something like combo. It's too easy to fall behind and you can't afford to take turns off.
May 25, 2015 4:10 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #32
Slycne True. I guess I just keep imagining games against twin where you Bitterblossom turn two and hold removal the rest of the game.
May 25, 2015 4:13 p.m.
ModernCentralPublic says... #33
Thank you Slyce for being the guy who is willing to spend 20 minutes explaining why the card doesn't work in modern to all the people who haven't seen the 40 other threads about the exact same thing.
May 25, 2015 10:06 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #34
Mmm let the salt flow through you.
No seriously, I've posted literal statistics of decks using it right now. If you wanna continue to be biased and ignore that, good on you.
May 25, 2015 10:20 p.m.
ModernCentralPublic says... #35
Statistics are nothing but well disguised lies unless they are evaluated properly. You didn't even take into account the hype people have for Bitterblossom effective how much it's played.
People could have just been testing it in live play to see if it's good or not and they just happened to make Top 8 because tokens is a solid deck overall if built correctly.
Some people might just like the card and have it so they figure they might as well use it.
I've extensively play tested the card in both faeries and tokens and it is just not a good card. It's too slow for modern and too situational. If someone happens to top 8 with it then whoopity doo, people top 8 with mono-red burn all the time and that deck is clearly sub-optimal, doesn't mean it can't get a little lucky.
May 25, 2015 10:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #36
I've been running the card since the day it was unbanned. The card kicks ass and I don't care what anyone says. The problem is that Tokens & Fae are both B grade decks at best and not the right home. Run it in MBC/Rock/Smallpox and tell me it sucks.
May 26, 2015 12:33 a.m. Edited.
VampireArmy - People do run sub optimal decks. Sure, it sees some play in some T2 decks but that isn't evidence in itself that the card is good. Evidence for it being good would be like it being played in most decks that run black - which is a lot more than just fae.
Also I believe the link you posted saying it was played in dead guy ale also said it was a legacy deck, not modern?
May 26, 2015 5:20 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #38
dead guy has been ported to modern. My argument was not that it is not the most viable card but to assume no deck can successfully run it is an incorrect statement as evidence showed.
Arvail says... #2
It's a bit slow and the deck has other important turn 2 plays it can make. Lists that run Sorin can afford the life loss, but it's still annoying to bleed for the tokens at times.
May 23, 2015 7:51 p.m.