Possible new tron variation?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 4, 2015, 2:21 a.m. by unbendingsea
With the new set spoilers and that sweet new planeswalker, I am wondering if anyone might end up coming with a new tron brew. I could see adding the mechanics of a r/g tron with Oblivion Stone, maps, and sylvan. It's kind of a curve ball to get people thinking if there could be a red, green splash white or possible a white green and maybe a blue splash for a more planeswalker control deck using the Urza lands. Just a though, but seriously, how could anyone not think up of an idea with a huge walker that can protect itself with Karn Liberated
Anyone else has any thoughts on this?
ouroborobelisk says... #3
Q: Why would you play Ugin over Karn? G/R Tron plays 4 Karn because he is that good, and a wincon all by himself. I don't think you would want to play both as it would weaken the deck. It's just my opinion, but I feel Ugin is more of an Aggro style deck planeswalker while Karn is just b@d@ss deck tech.
January 4, 2015 7:14 a.m.
As a Tron player, I can tell you the reason we play four copies of Karn Liberated is due to the ability to play him on turn three. Anything with 8+ mana means turn four, where we have the potential to play a second Urza's Tower for 10 mana total.
That means you're competing with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Sundering Titan, and Oblivion Stone (3 to play, 5 to activate). Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Sundering Titan are game-ending if they follow a Karn Liberated. Oblivion Stone is one of the few instant-speed removal spells in the deck, something which is direly needed against Infect, Splinter Twin, Living End, Jeskai Ascendancy, Affinity, Zoo...i.e. every aggro and/or combo deck in the format.
I think Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is definitely a new toy in Mono-Blue and U/W Tron, but I don't think he fulfills enough roles to compete with other 8+ mana cards in G/xTron.
I could also be entirely wrong and we'll start seeing more G/R Tron players showing up with Talisman of Impulse or Gruul Signets in their decks. That allows them to play Pyroclasm off of triple colorless lands and no eggs.
January 4, 2015 7:32 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
ChiefBell he can be cast on turn 3 but only in the U/W and U versions.
He's not for G/R Tron, Karn is better for them but there's already a couple of shells that Ugin fits, no need for another.
January 4, 2015 8:45 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #7
Ugin can't be cast on turn 3, but he's certainly playable. When he hits the board he's at least as powerful as Karn, if not more. I'd be finding room for at least two copies, possibly out of the sideboard in RG or in the maindeck of U.
January 4, 2015 10:08 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
GlistenerAgent Ugin can actually be cast on turn 3 with U Tron. It's a little bit Christmas but not outside the realm of possibility. My wife manages a T3 Sundering Titan every now and then.
January 4, 2015 11:02 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
Right, forgot that U Tron plays Talisman of Dominance. RG Tron can't do that, though.
January 4, 2015 11:04 a.m.
unbendingsea says... #11
I'm glad everyone is kinda thinking outside the box when it's coming to ugin, but I think people are misunderstanding when I say "coming up with a new brew." I'm not debating on whether karn or the new planeswalker ugin is better in a r/g tron, I am wanting other peoples ideas if there might be another way to build an entire new tron variant like a mono black tron which someone at my local fnm keeps going either 3-1 or 4-0. Could it be possible to build a green and white tron? Could mono blue have found it's new heavy hitter? These are the things I want people to think. Next things you know there's a tri-color tron deck rolling in the next GP. These are the things I'm wanting people to think about.
January 4, 2015 11:15 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #12
Mono-Black Tron. Super cool.
I think that it's best to try Ugin in the more stock versions. He's a colorless card, so why would additional colors pop into the deck when you just want the same ramp package?
January 4, 2015 11:19 a.m.
I could see GB tron. Though with Oblivion Stone B is not necessary really. I think Tron is pretty great in its current incarnation.
January 4, 2015 11:19 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #14
I can see multiple variations on Mono-U and GR Tron that factor in Ugin, the Spirit Dragon but I am not sure a new type of Tron is viable.
January 4, 2015 11:57 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #15
Tooth and Nail is a T4 play so Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is totally achievable
In addition to Tron with Mana rocks.
Overgrown Battlement Axebane Guardian and Crypt Ghast ramp routes can all hit it. I'm sure elves & probably some other routes as well.
Ugin reminds me a lot of Ajani Vengeant. I don't care if he's completely unplayable in any constructed format, I'll build me a casual colorless dragon deck with that slow storage land they spoiled...
January 4, 2015 12:15 p.m.
unbendingsea says... #17
Well it's more of just a thought or trying to get the gears turning.
GlistenerAgent you are right by trying to incorporate ugin in, but it would be kinda cool to see a new tron out there though. G/R tron I am not seeing a whole lot of and I have went against tron many of times with either my twin or deliver deck and I always win the first two games. I mean it is a thought to go green black since there can be so much hitting the graveyard. Trading Post or some of the staff's could be a nice brew to start with. Board wipes and kills spells, along with wurmcoil and ugin/karn. It could be nice instead of hoping to hit a red spell. Tron can be very wrap starting off unless it doesn't hit the turn 3-5 karn or wurmcoil. Like I said it's just a open thought for everyone to take in.
January 4, 2015 12:23 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
ChiefBell I knew people were going to take that the wrong way. Oh how these forums need an edit button.
I know Ajani Vengeant is a beast & totally playable. I meant that I don't care if Ugin is unplayable. Just the spacing on tapped out made it seem I was implying that Ajani was unplayable. .
January 4, 2015 12:37 p.m.
@unbendingsea: Sorry, in hindsight I feel like I didn't properly answer the question for new Tron brews.
White and black don't really offer much for Tron outside of some sideboard cards (Sacred Ground, Slaughter Games, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.). Sure, you have Terminus and Grave Titans, but they aren't nearly as efficient compared to Wurmcoil Engine or Cyclonic Rift.
Green offers all of the search cards, so it's an obvious choice in colors. Red offers Pyroclasm, which is really important for protecting yourself while you assemble Tron. Blue gives Condescend, Remand, Academy Ruins...enough cards to quickly fill up your 75. It's not that black and white are not viable, but rather: the other colors are more efficient at taking full advantage of seven mana from three lands.
So when we ask ourselves "What are some new Tron decks we can come up with that use Ugin, the Spirit Dragon?" the answer is "Nothing that isn't better than what we have already."
He fits into the existing U/x Tron builds quite nicely. He may even be able to replace Mindslaver and I definitely like him more than maindeck Platinum Angel. I just don't feel as though he's powerful enough as an eight-drop to warrant building an entirely new deck around.
But take me with a grain of salt. Like I said, it's entirely possible people just start playing more mana rocks. Or someone does come up with an entirely new color combination. A deck like Mono-Brown Tron certainly seems a lot better with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
January 4, 2015 5:31 p.m.
Hickorysbane says... #22
I like sylvannos's thing about replacing Platinum Angel. I've only ever played Tron when I was playtesting against it, but the Angel never really did as much as I'd hoped. Granted it was against a control deck that just waited until the last moment to knock it out with some removal spell...but it was never a turn three play anyways. Ugin could wipe a lot of little things off the board and snipe anything else that tries to come down, or just sit there threatening to ult and drop some Eldrazi and Sundering Titans.
January 4, 2015 11:30 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #23
Platinum Angel is a aggro prevention piece. Against control it's not that amazing.
January 5, 2015 12:07 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #24
Funny how everyone is thinking colors. TWoo posted a colorless prison deck idea running Ugin. I suggest looking to that for inspiration since he was using the Tron lands as ramp, you can find it on CF's website.
January 5, 2015 9:07 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #25
Ugin is an EDH card, not a modern one. Sure, he may see modern play in weird homebrews, but he will not be a staple.
January 6, 2015 4:34 a.m.
I think Ugin goes perfectly in GR tron to replace Oblivion Stone.
January 6, 2015 12:22 p.m.
Yeh but there will be games where he's just uncastable even with tron lands
January 6, 2015 12:23 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #29
vishnarg he isn't the perfect replacement as in he doesn't do the same thing but i can see some of the tron builds switching them.
January 6, 2015 12:25 p.m.
Seems pretty close to me. Still 8 mana, clears the board better than O Stone and stays around after to keep bolting everything they play. It's a way better turn 4 followup to a Karn than O Stone ever was.
January 6, 2015 12:33 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #31
Except Ostone can be Academy Ruinsed.
I'd say 2 Ostone 2 Ugin
January 6, 2015 12:44 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #33
If you're going to try and fit him in a current deck, I think the best place to fit him in is as a 1 of in GR TRON. Run three Karn and 1 Ugin. I wouldn't drop Ostone under 4 as it hits it all.
January 6, 2015 1:16 p.m.
I can see a mono U tron list trying to assemble Ugin and Painter's Servant, exile all permanents other than Ugin (land included as they'd be colored at that point) and then using Ugin to Ghostfire its way to victory.
January 6, 2015 2:52 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #35
I think the benefits of Ugin over Oblivion Stone is that Ugin is reusable without wasting a turn putting a silly counter on itself. O Stone is still generally better, because it also wrecks Affinity.
January 6, 2015 3:49 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #37
Oblivion Stone can save other Oblivion Stones.
That was a derp on my part, but O Stone can still save a Karn Liberated, which exiles things; strictly better than destroying them.
January 7, 2015 10:27 a.m.
unbendingsea says... #38
Now this is what I wanted to see as far as introducing ugin.
I do like Travis Woo's build, but I find people adding colors is one of the main things people look forward to make him more usable and a tough deck to beat if someone could use Pyroclasm or counter spells. So I don't blame people for trying to introduce new colors or incorporating him in tron variants.
Caes I didn't even think about using that combo to completely destroy your opponents lands and other permanent. I think people could be using that plan with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and see what brews they could play around with.
January 7, 2015 11:12 p.m.
unbendingsea Yeah, I'm currently experimenting with it right now. I think mono U is the best shell for it because it has the potential to turn three Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
Once you manage to fire off his -X, even if you had to exile your Painter's Servant in the process, you should be able to easily ride his +2 to victory while you opponent is trying to recover.
January 8, 2015 8:33 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #40
You guys do realize that Painter's Servant + Ugin, the Spirit Dragon will Armageddon yourself too right? Servant makes lands colored permanents with a CMC of 0 and it's a global effect.
Yes, you are left with an Ugin but you now have no mana open for countermagic or anything else.
It just seems less strong and more of a strategy that would be too "all in" for my tastes. Why risk exiling all of your lands when just using Ugin's -X normally should win the game for you.
January 8, 2015 8:53 a.m.
And then there's like Maelstrom Pulse which makes it significantly less good because it actually doesn't cost much mana.
January 8, 2015 8:55 a.m.
julianjmoss says... #42
Ohthenoises even if you armeggedon yourself, it's two turns before he ults assuming there is no interaction (there always is though) and you are sti going to be proactive in that time period. It's a pretty funny idea. Ugin is still pretty good removal which a lot of the tron decks are lacking. He also plays really well alongside karn, not sure why people want to replace karn with him.
January 8, 2015 9:07 a.m.
It's fun to build a deck around a creature that dies to literally every removal spell in the entire format!
January 8, 2015 9:10 a.m.
julianjmoss says... #44
Chiefbell the painter servant thing in my eyes is a gimmick and is just for fun. Ugin IMO is still a solid card and a welcome addition. I don't believe he is worth cramming in every tron deck but still think he adds a lot to some of the decks.
January 8, 2015 9:14 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #46
Lands are colorless unless something gives them a color DrFunk27
January 8, 2015 9:38 a.m.
unbendingsea says... #48
julianjmoss is absolutely correct
OhthenoisesWhat people don't get is that if somehow there is nothing on the board to kill ugin and you have servant on the field, you can literally blow up everyone's lands which in case leaves everyone with no counter magic, kill/burn spells and you have free range to do whatever you want. No lands no problem. Yes the idea would be very hard to pull off or you might screw yourself, but it's a all or nothing trick like storm or ascendancy.
This might be something that might give the tron lands another purpose. Travis Woo had a nice brew using him by a crazy brick wall style allowing nothing in and no counter problems. It might be something to add Painter's Servant
January 8, 2015 12:22 p.m.
Facelessfiction says... #49
I play a G/W/B version of tron, i rarely lose with it. I have not found anyone else playing the Abzan variant. W/U and R/G tron couldn't touch it. The closest match I had was against w/u tron.
June 6, 2015 2:42 p.m.
Please check the last date before posting. This thread hasn't been posted in for over 6 months.
DrFunk27 says... #2
If I play it, I'll play it in mono U tron. Maybe UB with discard to protect it.
January 4, 2015 6:19 a.m.