Post Ban, is Burn viable again?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 19, 2015, 2:18 p.m. by KB2187
Curious of what people thought now post banned list announcement. I was play RB burn for modern until KTK. Should I try to rebuild my deck?
It's probably weaker without Treasure Cruise. But it was good before it anyways, so I think it's still powerful.
January 19, 2015 2:28 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #4
Burn has always been a thing. Treasure Cruise is very much newer than Burn. It'll keep on doing what it does.
January 19, 2015 2:32 p.m.
untranslated says... #5
Swop TC for bloodmoon. no need to really do anything else. :D
January 21, 2015 11:26 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #6
I don't know about that untranslated. There aren't that many burn decks that run blood moon anymore. With how diverse modern is, burn decks today are typically 3 color to begin with. Then, they sideboard into even more colors. It's not that hard to find a 4 or even 5 color burn deck. Burn decks don't only relay on their fetches and shocks because of that reason, but also because fetches take 2 lands out of the equation for draw. This keeps the deck very aggressive and helps top decking. Blood Moon also cost 3 mana. 3 mana spells are very rare in burn (unless they have delve or suspend). By the time a burn deck has 3 mana, the game could be over . What I'm trying to say is that, today, I don't see Blood Moon helping out burn. If anything it would be a sideboard card. Burn just likes its fetches and shocks too much. Beside that, there's other cards that players could play to take its spot such as Gitaxian Probe or possibly even Browbeat.
January 21, 2015 5:10 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #8
Replace cruise with lavamancer. It is what burn decks did before cruise, and it is what they will continue to do after.
January 21, 2015 5:13 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #9
I've had the Soulfire Grand Master so many times and have been on both sides of it GlistenerAgent. And I'm pretty sure I'm against it forever now. Pretty much the argument is burn doesn't care if it wins at 40 or 4 life and the pilot will draw it when they need a burn spell the worst.
Right now I'm running Browbeat cause it's either 5 damage or 3 cards, which I see as a win win. But it is the opponents choice and it does cost 3 mana. I like what quesobueno123 is saying about lavamancer and will probably give that a go instead. Or Gitaxian Probe.
January 21, 2015 5:34 p.m.
I had a RB Burn pre-KTK mainly for Bump in the Night. Would a RW with a splash of black be viable?
January 26, 2015 2:36 a.m.
I'd say Soulfire Grand Master is a good sideboard card, mainly against mirrors and other aggro decks that lack removals. Bant Auras for example. But for main deck, I agree he's clunky, and most of the times, you'd wish you bought something else.
To substitute Treasure Cruise I'd say I'm with Invisible_Stalker on this one. I'd probably try out Browbeat or Grim Lavamancer. Browbeat is kind of slow for a burn deck, but it is a heavy burn or extra steam. The main weakness of a burn deck is that it loses steam fast. Once you have your hand empty, your opponent, if not dead, should have at most 3 life, so you can burn him on top decking a burn spell.
Although 1 mana-3 damage spells are the best for burn, you should have some bigger damage to make sure you can inflict 20 damage with the 10~12 cards you'd draw on a game. Browbeat does alone, 25% of the damage you need on most of the games, and if not, it gives you three cards that should give you more 6~9 damage.
January 26, 2015 8:23 a.m.
I think most of the burn decks are this way now KB2187. Actually, I think most of them are RW with a splash of black for Bump in the Night. RW gives you Lightning Helix (very powerful against other aggro decks), Boros Charm (very strong burn spell, 2 mana - 4 damage), Spark Trooper (risky, but very powerful if it connects) and some very good sideboard options.
January 26, 2015 8:29 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #13
The reason why a lot of people don't run Browbeat is because against control, if it gets countered that's 3 mana down the drain. And if a burn deck waste 3 mana, they are likely screwed since they have to be perfect with everything. Another reason is because sometimes it's hard to get out 3 mana in burn. I use to be big on Browbeat but have discovered it's short comings. As I said above, I clearly am not against it since I suggested it, I just want the drawbacks to be known.
RWB is the way that most deck are going now. Black for Bump in the Night. White for Boros Charm and Wear / Tear. Lightning Helix has lost its place in burn. The mana for what it does in considered ineffective. In burn, you really don't care if you end with 4 or 40 life so nobody really cares about the life gain. Which means it's really only burning for 3 and cost two mana (RW). The only two cost burn that burn runs either does four damage (Boros Charm), or hits a creature and controller for 3 (Searing Blaze while all the once cost cards hit for 3. Burn is all about tempo so that one mana, especially when two different colors, cost one more. A lot of it also comes from when a deck goes from RW to RWB, Bump in the Night just simply replaces it cause there's not enough room for both. With all that said, I would vote against Spark Trooper. He cost way too much for burn and could easily just be a waste of mana. I was running Ball Lightning in the infancy of my deck and that quickly changed.
To answer the original question in full, straight up RB I'm not sure. RW and RWB, though, for sure. RW and RWB are the directions most competitive burn decks are going these days. Some are even side boarding a fourth color for cards like Geist of Saint Traft or Destructive Revelry.
Here's my deck for reference, which has been successful: Sir, There's No Burn Heal In Magic
quesobueno123 really knows what he's talking about and has a deck that would be worthwhile to look at.
January 26, 2015 12:04 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #14
Well, considering Lightning Bolt is used more in modern than Island, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The crutch is still a crutch, regardless of what they choose to ban.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
What do you mean, "viable again"? Treasure Cruise made the deck better.
January 19, 2015 2:20 p.m.