Potential of Modern Bans?
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 14, 2016, 4:47 p.m. by MADMatt7777
Do you guys think Cathartic Reunion or Become Immense have the potential to be banned during the next ban announcement? Why or Why Not?
Are either one of them a part of a easy turn two three or four win? Do they make decks to consistent?
November 14, 2016 5:16 p.m.
Become Immense- no. While it is a neat kill condition, it just is nowhere near oppressive enough.
Cathartic Reunion- no. It wouldn't kill the dredge deck. Even if Wizards wants to kill the deck, I think they know better ways of doing so.
November 14, 2016 5:16 p.m.
DarkLaw The point of banning Cathartic Reunion wouldn't be to kill the deck, it would be to nerf it.
November 14, 2016 5:40 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #6
I, for one, could see Become Immense and Cathartic Reuinion getting banned. Maybe not now, but eventually.
November 14, 2016 7:20 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #7
So you remember that like month before kaladesh came out where dredge was still one of the best decks in modern? Yeah, it doesn't need cathartic reunion to be good. To nerf dredge, you nix Prized Amalgam or Bloodghast.
There's zero reason for Become Immense to get banned. The decks that it's good in are good without it, and to hit those decks you just nix the creature that gets the buff. So Blighted Agent or Death's Shadow.
The only card in modern that I could see a reasonable argument for banning is Blighted Agent. Infect is actually the dominant deck in modern, the format is starting to warp around it (Skred just won a GP...), and agent getting hit means that the deck doesn't have a great reason to play blue anymore. The deck would either devolve into mono green builds which are more open to removal in the form of jund, GB which has been seeing some low level success, or stay UG just for the counterspell suite and just be worse.
November 14, 2016 7:22 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #8
I mean, to be fair DevoidMage, banning either of those would hit the deck pretty hard, while banning Reunion would be more of a love-tap, which also wouldn't hurt peoples vampire/zombie decks.
November 14, 2016 7:53 p.m.
zyphermage says... #9
I'd much rather like to see some un-bans and more printings to deal with oppressive strategies. Like a few years ago we got graf cage, rest in peace, stuff like that.
November 14, 2016 9:37 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #10
Become Immense enables the most degeneracy. Prized Amalgam does the same. Those are bannable cards.
However,Wizards doesn't want to make people feel like they blew their money on nothing. They're certainly not going to ban Agent or Bloodghast. Dredge is still a good deck without Amalgam, and Infect is also very good without become immense. However, deaths shadow might die off, so I doubt they'll ban become immense.
Amalgam seems reasonable to me though. Dredge is a deck that is very good against removal, hand disruption, and sweepers. Specific sideboard slots have to be dedicated towards it, and even then, one hate card usually isn't enough. Dredge should be shaken up. Infect and deaths shadow can easily fold to thought seize or terminate. That's why they're "acceptable" combo decks. Dredge will probably go towards Gargadon Bridge version, but that deck is much worse against single removal spells, since Garfadon just dies to them.
November 15, 2016 12:08 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #11
IMO, Become Immense will stay in modern because it's not an ultimate kill. Delve 5 isn't always that easy and paying this for 6 mana is ridiculous seen the format's average cmc. If your only concern with this card is infect, I think Blossoming Defense has more chance to see a ban since it's another 'removal dodger' along with Vines of Vastwood.
However, and I'd really regret this if it happens, phyrexian cards like Gitaxian Probe and Mutagenic Growth could see a ban since they fill the GY 'for free' allowing insanely early Become Immense. It's not problematic for most of the decks but infect right now is just too powerful because of that.
What concerns Cathartic Reunion, I'm pretty sure it'll get banned. The loot synergy is just too OP with dredge, especially since there is so to say nothing you can do to interact with it. You can of course pack GY hate but I've seen dredge win with a T1 Leyline of the Void on the table...
It reminds me of Summer Bloom for Amulet Bloom back in the days : it's not a threat on it's own, but does everything the deck wants to be doing. Therefore, unless you pack some specific hate, you'll get crushed by it.
November 15, 2016 7:10 a.m.
frogkill45 says... #12
My opinion on Dredge is that Cathartic Reunion is fine its an enabler piece for the deck. The real threat is the Golgari Grave-Troll. Dredge 6 fills the GY fast. Golgari Grave-Troll has been banned before which makes him the prime candidate for it again. Cathartic Reunion is the match, but GGT is the gasoline.
Become Immense is fine. most of the time i lose to infect before they even play this. Might of Old Krosa or Vines of Vastwood / Blossoming Defense are more of the game winning plays. Blessed Alliance was definitely a great add to stop infect with its other versatility its a great sideboard.
My opinion for bans should be to remove 8th & 9th Editions
November 17, 2016 12:37 p.m.
I'm gonna side with zyphermage on this one. Unban Stoneforge Mystic and/or Deathrite Shaman and dredge gets put back in check quick. (My rationale on SFM is that a turn 3 batterskull slows them WAY down and gives you a chance to race, as opposed to having any direct effect on the yard). Neither of those really help with infect, which has been breaking the turn four rule for some time now. Maybe printing some more "split second" effects for removal, or poison counter hosers for an upcoming phyrexia block. With how much Wizards regrets phyrexian mana, though, I predict gitaxian probe and mutagenic getting the axe before anything else.
November 17, 2016 5:01 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #14
I don't see anything getting unbanned in modern, there just is not a good enough argument to unban any of the cards on the list, as they pretty much all do one of three things WOTC doesn't like: Enable Combo decks, ie. Ponder, Rite of Flame, Chrome Mox; Make tier 1 decks better/tier 0 decks, ie. Deathrite Shaman, Eye of Ugin, Seat of the Synod; or Outclass segments of the format, ie. Birthing Pod, Splinter Twin, Stoneforge Mystic. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is the odd one out, but WOTC has never been enthusiastic about the idea of dumping him into modern, so I don't expect that anytime soon.
If something gets banned its Golgari Grave-Troll, because WOTC hates dredge, and it was previously banned, so it is the least controversial decision. With Blossoming Defense seeming the part of Infect to shoot out, though I don't think infect is quite there yet, and doesn't draw as much hatred from WOTC like dredge does.
November 19, 2016 12:28 p.m.
Golgari Grave-Troll is fine, it's the "free" creatures coming back each turn, specifically Prized Amalgam.
If they ban any of the other cards in Dredge, it still operates the same as it did before. I.e. dump a bunch of cards, play a land, trigger Bloodghasts, get back multiple Prized Amalgams, then beat face each turn, despite your opponent's blockers and removal.
Cathartic Reunion just gets replaced by Goblin Lore or Wild Guess/Dangerous Wager. Dredge was already becoming a problem before Cathartic Reunion was printed.
While not as good, Golgari Thug, Shambling Shell, or Golgari Brownscale just get jammed in where Golgari Grave-Troll was.
You can also do stupid things with Phantasmagorian and Street Wraith.
Without Prized Amalgam, the deck just puts a few 1 and 2 power creatures into play while durdling around for 6 turns.
Modern is also really light on people packing enough graveyard hate in their sideboards. A lot of people are still only running 1 to 3 sideboard cards to hate out graveyards. The solution is more likely to go to 6 cards a la Legacy and Vintage.
It would also be nice if we had an actual control deck to also police the format. This is one of the issues with banning Birthing Pod and Splinter Twin...there's not much left in the format that can just dumpster combo decks game 1 and alleviate other decks' need to fill up their sideboards to answer everything. You have to use a bunch of slots to deal with Affinity, Infect, Scapeshift, Burn, and Zooicide, ON TOP OF your other sideboard cards for Jund, Grixis, Eldrazi, and Collected Company.
November 21, 2016 5 a.m.
There's also a case to be made for allowing 20 card sideboards in a format as deep as modern (or legacy). Not a fix-all-silver-bullet, but I believe it would help.
November 22, 2016 10:24 p.m.
zyphermage says... #17
I like that last idea about 20 card sideboards although it does have some practical issues. Like boxes fitting them being added, prices, and more time spent boarding.
I just started thinking about difference between modern and legacy dredge and thought it funny. You don't have access to Dread Return because of bans, or Cabal Therapy Lion's Eye Diamond Ichorid Cephalid Coliseum because they are too old, and Bridge from Below is modern legal but does not work well. I understand the fundamentals of the deck but don't get that last card. I guess because modern opponent's have more creatures and it is generally win more?
November 23, 2016 4:37 a.m.
Harashiohorn says... #18
Long story short, people in modern have more creatures. Also cards like Arcbound Ravager let people shoot it for free.
kanokarob says... #2
Didn't we discuss why Become Immense won't be banned, and that thinking it will be is ridiculously ignorant, a few weeks ago?
I haven't noticed Cathartic Reunion to be doing any of the things that wizards bans cards for. It's not a key piece of a deck that is controlling an unreasonable percentage of the meta, it doesn't facilitate game wins that wizards deems too fast, etc.
It's an exceptional card but it isn't cancerous. As I understand it.
November 14, 2016 5:16 p.m.