Ragavan+Thalia
Modern forum
Posted on June 24, 2021, 11:14 p.m. by Red_X
I'm wanting to try Boros D&T, but I'm trying to figure out the Ragavan/Thalia conundrum. Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer is very powerful, but really needs cheap removal to work well so it can get through blockers. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a staple of the deck and also powerful, but hurts cheap removal plans. Is there a way to make them play well together, or do I just need to drop one?
That's just way too slow. That's turn 4 at the earliest, and turn 4 in modern is when living end is comboing and amulet is killing you with Primeval Titan . You want to play Ragavan turn 1, deal with a blocker and attack turn 2, then play a 2 drop or wait a turn and play 2 threats on turn 3.
June 24, 2021 11:55 p.m.
That's fair. I know that stuff like tron, control and a few others don't have much board presence until turn 3 so there are spaces there for openings but I wasn't sure about some of the other archetypes.
What removal are you looking at btw? Lightning Bolt / Path to Exile ?
June 25, 2021 12:11 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #5
Obligatory "not a modern player, but"...
...you could use Fury as removal.
June 25, 2021 12:31 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #6
Solitude might work as well. The lifegain seems problematic, though.
June 25, 2021 12:35 a.m.
enpc Lightning Bolt , Lightning Helix , and Prismatic Ending (if a splash works in the mana base) were my main considerations, along with path if things like eldrazi and troll king get more popular. It's just that bolt for 2 or helix for 3 feels so bad a lot of the time.
seshiro_of_the_orochi I'm running a couple of Solitude s, hadn't really considered Fury . The problem is that the play pattern becomes turn 1 Ragavan, turn 2 pitch 2 cards to kill a creature so Ragavan gets me a treasure and deals 2 damage. That just doesn't feel great, but your creature based removal idea may be good enough. Something in the vein of Flametongue Yearling or the like.
June 25, 2021 12:55 a.m.
ThisIsMyAccount says... #8
If you plan on playing Leonin Arbiter , then Path to Exile is totally fine even with Thalia because the opponent will have to pay more than you if they want the land. If not, 2 CMC for instant speed exile target creature is more than reasonable. You could also go for Prismatic Ending because it powerful enough in multicolor decks that paying one more is probably okay. Skyclave Apparition can work for any sort of permeants, too, if you really wanted to avoid that Thalia tax.
You can also just sideboard the Thalia because it isn't that useful in every matchup.
June 25, 2021 10 a.m.
wallisface says... #9
I’m gunna be the first to say it - drop one. These things don’t play well together. The monke also doesn’t do anything that a D&T deck is after
June 25, 2021 4:37 p.m.
Ragavan wins the game when it hits twice. Thalia makes your cheap removal plan worse. If you have Ragavan and cheap removal, don't play Thalia until they kill your Ragavan. Also, hitting with Ragavan will pay you back on the expent extra mana with a treasure token; you don't just have to cast their card.
June 26, 2021 7:19 a.m.
Ragavan wins the game when it hits twice. Thalia makes your cheap removal plan worse. If you have Ragavan and cheap removal, don't play Thalia until they kill your Ragavan . Also, hitting with Ragavan will pay you back on the expent extra mana with a treasure token; you don't just have to cast their card.
enpc says... #2
I don't play Modern so feel free to disregard, however could you use something like Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner to let you keep connecting even if your opponent has an established board state?
June 24, 2021 11:47 p.m.