So the meta's healthy right?
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 7, 2015, 7:10 a.m. by ChiefBell
I posted this thread basically saying that we have a major problem with modern right now in that the banning of pod just left a void that would hastily be filled by abzan. My concern was basically that we've gone from one deck being overly represented in every event to quite another.
Here's a breakdown of the decks present in the pro tour. Guess how represented Abzan is - go on guess, I dare you!
Reveal answer
30%. Thirty per cent. 30!
Needless to say I am slightly concerned.
Source here
Thoughts?
bijschjdbcd says... #3
It amazes me that people play decks that aren't particularly Competitive to the ProTour.
February 7, 2015 7:24 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #4
competitive or not competitive is a real meta call
February 7, 2015 7:32 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #5
Is it? Some of the decks listed have horrible match ups against the most popular decks in the format as it stands, If itis a meta call its an incredibly badone.
February 7, 2015 7:35 a.m.
I'm just more concerned about how unhealthy the whole thing looks.
February 7, 2015 7:36 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #7
That percentage will increase will only go up if it performs well in the PT and up coming GPs.
February 7, 2015 7:45 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #8
bijschjdbcd Dude, people are ALWAYS going to play their pet decks if they are good enough at them. Merfolk will show up to basically every event.
February 7, 2015 7:46 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #9
Andrew Cuneo is on Infect.
Was sorta the origins of my comment.
February 7, 2015 7:47 a.m.
Misanthropia says... #10
Half a month into a new meta, of course people will build the obvious decks, you even see the usual high amount of burn that comes with an uncertain meta aswell.
It'll settle down, stop making dumb threads crying for something.
February 7, 2015 7:48 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #11
The meta will develop based on results.
Abzans high showing will influence the meta, it is hardly a dumb thread.
February 7, 2015 7:52 a.m.
30% is fucking nuts... when cruise got the boot delver was at what... 15%? There you go, wizards, bring back cruise to fix the meta :->
February 7, 2015 8:03 a.m.
Misanthropia - People build the decks putting in the best results. As those decks continue to put in good results they'll show up more and more. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stop posting dumb comments that fail to understand what motivates people to play certain decks.
February 7, 2015 8:08 a.m.
Infect at 8-0 at the end of day 1!
But 30% is an obscene number, despite it being a predictable move for former Pod players who have 90% of the pieces to make the deck already.
Bringing anything back from the recent ban is just going to make everything worse -- Especially Cruise. That 30% figure will barely drop and Delver will return to the ~15% it was before. That'll be 40-45% of the meta taken up by Junk and Delver.
Got to agree with Misanthropia though. Making threads crying about it or saying "oh noes, my deck could be ruined!" isn't a positive usage of time.
February 7, 2015 9:01 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #15
Hell 30% of decks being pod is what got it banned even though there were 3 distinct decks. Only 18.75% of the top 16 were pod and that was 2 distinct decks. Wizards has proven that they aren't against banning cards because they are popular in many different decks. So I call for a Forest banning since they are being run in fully 50% of decks.
February 7, 2015 9:04 a.m.
I'm not worried. Abzan looked like the top deck, and they only had a few weeks to play test. The meta will eventually balance out, as people figure out what the tier 1 decks are.
February 7, 2015 9:05 a.m.
I'm not saying 'my deck is going to be ruined' at all. You completely miss the point. I'm saying 'modern is looking really bad - what can we or Wizards do'. I don't care if they ban goyf. I don't care if they ban siege rhino. All I want is for people to have a discussion where we look at what was banned recently, where we consider the effect that had on the current meta, and where we look forward to the next logical step. This is not me whingeing about the deck I play - this is me showing concern for the format I love. If the deck I play has to be nerfed to allow a healthier format then so be it.
February 7, 2015 9:08 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #18
I'm amused that CFB played Infect to beat Abzan. Abzan is literally the worst matchup for the deck because of Lingering Souls.
On the other hand, the Abzan decks seem really bad. Gavony Township, Voice of Resurgence, bleh. Just play the normal version, come on.
February 7, 2015 9:09 a.m.
It would probably be more constructive to say - do you think Abzan dominance will continue? Will the meta shift? Will people correctly identify how to beat Abzan? Are you worried?
February 7, 2015 9:16 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #20
Personally, I'm not worried. There are decks that beat Abzan, decks that beat those decks, etc., and the metagame will shift around some more.
As for how to beat Abzan, cast Wurmcoil Engine. If you can do that, you'll do very well. Scapeshift and Tron seem poised to do so.
February 7, 2015 9:18 a.m.
no but analyzing an insane meta breakdown is a positive use of magic players' time. The main flaw in the hillarious misanthropia comment is that bell wasn't crying even in the slightest- he was helping us become more informed of an interesting issue.
February 7, 2015 9:21 a.m.
ojeez i need to refresh my screen more- last comment @skulloelegy
then this misanthropia turd shows up and screams stop discussing meta on magic forums!!!
February 7, 2015 9:25 a.m.
sorry lol- i've been annoyed since i saw that post but not enough to respond till now. It was just so out of left field and irrelevant
February 7, 2015 9:26 a.m.
i mean what are magic forums for if not discussing things like meta issues
February 7, 2015 9:28 a.m.
I think people mistake this for moaning, when really I'm like 'here's this interesting thing. I'm scared for my format. What do?'
February 7, 2015 9:31 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #29
I'm surprised by the sheer lack of Twin in the meta, and same with Bloom Titan. I would have expected a much stronger showing.
Still, 30% Abzan is kind of nuts... I kind of hope that we see a really good red card, either midrange creature or tempo generator, that can split the abzan players so some of them can play jund. I have no problem with the sheer amount of midrange "I have answers to everything" decks, I'm more worried about Abzan being the only option if you want to do midrange.
Either way, we need more R/G Tron and Affinity players to beat down the Abzan players...
February 7, 2015 9:33 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #30
Twin seems popular at the PT, Personally I've been excited to play modern since I heard what Mihara is playing.
February 7, 2015 9:35 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #31
Also, A friend just said to me that there is more Rhinos in the PT than in the wild:/
February 7, 2015 9:37 a.m.
Yep- I'm a little nervous for it too. It seems like the heavy handed role wizards has been playing in shaping the meta might be doing more harm than good
February 7, 2015 9:38 a.m.
Agreed. I would like to see more Tron, more Scapeshift and others. Not so much affinity because Creeping Corrosion and Stony Silence are both things BUT I do want to see this dominance challenged in a concrete way. I want modern to be fresh and interesting. You know what might shake up the format slightly? Something like Flametongue Kavu. That's an amazing midrange card in red that would at worst make players fight between BGW and BGR (which in itself increases diversity), and at best encourage mono red and other decks to try a midrange approach too.
February 7, 2015 9:38 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #34
Tron and Scapeshift will rise, as both have good Abzan matchups. People will play more control as well, because control is strong against the aggressive decks like Burn, Affinity and Infect.
February 7, 2015 9:41 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #35
Lets all whinge about how much Wizarfs is warping the format :/
February 7, 2015 9:41 a.m.
I apologise, I was paraphrasing stuff you'd said before and must have gotten the wrong end of the stick.
I still say it needs to be up to the community to encourage new deck types, but that's in an ideal world. People are still going to netdeck to win, I'll even admit I did that to make my infect deck, slight variances for budget aside.
I really think Junk is going to stick around at that 30% point, maybe slipping down to 25%. It's really strong, and as long as it keeps winning, people will copy it to do the same. But this will encourage people to work around it, absolutely true. Whether that encourages finding and making new deck types and combos or just changes the competitive sideboard? We can't be certain of anything until the meta settles.
February 7, 2015 9:44 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #37
A very humble response, a rare site on the internet.
February 7, 2015 9:47 a.m.
I 100% agree with that. Abzan is popular so it's going to win more events just by virtue of the fact that more people are playing it -> Because people see it winning it'll become more popular or at least stay as popular -> It'll keep winning events because lots of people are playing it. That's the cycle I think we're in.
I really do feel that it's up to the community now to say well..... what can we do with Deathmark or Mirran Crusader etc.
February 7, 2015 9:47 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #40
I agree, I would love to see a meta of 30% Tron :/
February 7, 2015 9:50 a.m.
Agreed. Tron is great -- Not all of the key pieces are super expensive, and you can sub out the expensive stuff for other things to fit your budget/playstyle. Plus, so many options for win-cons -- Platinum Angel / Wurmcoil Engine / Sundering Titan / Karn Liberated / Storm Crow
February 7, 2015 9:54 a.m.
It's a good thing they banned the good blue cards that were warping the format. I kind of want to see Abzan dominate the top 8 (the way TC/DTT decks never did).
February 7, 2015 10:08 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #44
That comment is exactly why TC and DTT got banned, It's been said already but people are okay with getting Thoughtseized and then bludgeoned to death by a Rhino but they can't stand people cou tering their stuff and drawing cards.
February 7, 2015 10:14 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #45
For some reason, I enjoy countering stuff and drawing cards.
That said, I also enjoy killing people on turn 3, so I guess you could say I'm a complex person. :)
February 7, 2015 10:23 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #46
We are remarkably similar in our taste of Magic decks.
February 7, 2015 10:24 a.m.
I still find it amazing that WotC preemptively banned DTT. And if Abzan continues to dominate the metagame, they'll respond by banning more cards rather than liberating others.
February 7, 2015 10:26 a.m.
I think unbanning things that make T2 decks stronger is a viable way to move some people away from existing T1 decks.
I also think that printing a red midrange card would be nice because it shifts focus away from BGW - at worse you then increase variety by bringing in BGR, but there would feasibly also be like BWR too.
February 7, 2015 10:30 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #50
Well that's excessive... Jesus.
Normally I would say, "Wait and see." But... here's the problem. We've already seen this before. We know how the meta will roughly work out to be. Except for one addition: Abzan dominance. Because of the Rhino. So now we're in a bit of a bind until either Wizards does something, or we get a shiny new toy to play with. This is not an ideal situation and I completely agree with ChiefBell on this. Unbanning something useful (aka not Grave Troll) to enable T2 decks might be the right call. Also, the more Abzan wins the more people will play it.
JexInfinite says... #2
Aw yeah super healthy. 2 Soul Sisters decks! That's 2/3 the amount of decks we had at pro events before the bannings.
February 7, 2015 7:13 a.m.