Soulfire Grand Master and Monastery Mentor
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 18, 2015, 7:32 p.m. by InnerFlame
Any idea on how Soulfire Grand Master and Monastery Mentor might affect the modern format?
I'm mainly looking to put a playset of one of them in my burn deck...maybe. I want to see if they actually work. Mentor cost a lot for fun and Master isn't necessarily aggressive but I have heard a lot of people are excited about him in burn. What's the word about these two in modern burn?
Even outside of burn, I'm interested in seeing if anyone else thinks these two will change the modern format very much?
InnerFlame says... #3
ChiefBell: yeah i could totally see master bing sideboard material. I feel like Mentor ' s tokens with prowess would be huge in burn and control, thr problem is, mainly for burn, it cost 3.
January 18, 2015 7:37 p.m.
slovakattack says... #4
ChiefBell: I really can't see her beating out Kor Firewalker in sideboard tech for Modern burn.
Pro red is too valuable. He laughs at Searing Blaze, she crumples.
January 18, 2015 7:38 p.m.
I think both could have potential in some sort of Jeskai midrange/control. Still up in the air though.
January 18, 2015 7:41 p.m.
slovakattack says... #7
I think he'd be pretty good in Tokens, if the right shell is found for him. Zealous Persecution with multiplicative scaling, anyone? :D
January 18, 2015 7:43 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
Monastery Mentor will very likely see play in similar shells to Geist of Saint Traft, heavy on the burn end of things with some Remands to back it up.
As for Soulfire Grand Master, I imagine it's amazing for Jeskai Control against Burn, but I wouldn't sideboard it in the more creature-heavy version of Jeskai because you want your opponent to sideboard out Searing Blazes.
January 18, 2015 7:48 p.m.
I think grand master could see mainboard play for some burn decks. I'm not sure about monastery mentor unless someone makes UW delver that works. But that wouldn't make much sense.
January 18, 2015 8:05 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
Monastery mentor is going to be at its best in vintage where nearly every spell triggers it and 3 mana is extremely doable turn 1. Modern just doesn't have that. You could devatebly use him in legacy but only testing will tell. As for soulfire, only skred decks truly get full use out of her. Burn decks would rather have kor. Lingering mardu can do better. Maybe If someone brews a new deck for it but i wouldn't hold your breath
January 18, 2015 8:37 p.m.
Last time I am getting into this discussion: Monastery Mentor will be a 3 of in modern BW token builds. Yes it competes for the 3 spot with Souls and Procession. Yes Hero hitsbharder, but this will be huge for Modern BW tokens. End of story...Wait and see.
January 18, 2015 8:43 p.m.
xzzane, you keep saying that because it is slower than things like Hero of Bladehold but even Craig Wescoe has put out an article where he outlines how powerful he is. Deal with him or lose...he is going to be a thing.
January 18, 2015 8:56 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #15
The problem with that being real with him is a very easy thing to do. Maybe if the meta becomes less bolty
January 18, 2015 9:02 p.m.
My argument has never been that hero is faster. That's part of it, yes. But the fact of the matter is, in this meta mentor has zero place. There is a ton of Lightning Bolts going around. Tokens needs turn 3 to stabilize. It will more than likely waste your turn 3. Tokens can't even make optimal use of him due to its more aggro playstyle. This will make zero impact in competitive tokens in the long run. Wescoe also made an article saying similar things about pack rat, but it has very similar flaws.
January 18, 2015 9:03 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
To be fair pack rat actually is a decent card and does okay in rack
January 18, 2015 9:14 p.m.
But its only Meh in tokens. I've talked to a lot of people that have used it that have hated it. It sees more play in deadguy ale.
January 18, 2015 9:27 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #19
Oh in context of tokens, that be true. My bad i was thinking more generally. I also read that article by wescoe and i remember him saying that the mentor is not suited for the modern meta for being too slow...
January 18, 2015 9:31 p.m.
I need to read this article. But yeah, end of story mentor just isn't good for tokens. I've had this same conversation like 40 times so far.
January 18, 2015 10:06 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #21
Sorry. I take it back I read this from " Caleb Durward"
From the article :
"Monastery Mentor - This card will reshape Vintage. Young Pyromancer is already the bee's knees, and this ability is much more powerful than Young Pyromancer's. Not just because the tokens have prowess, but also because random artifacts can trigger it instead of just instants and sorceries.
Consider the following scenario: Turn one Mana Crypt, land, Monastery Mentor, Lotus Petal (trigger), Preordain (trigger).
On turn two you have three creatures with prowess, and with a couple more cantrips or Moxen that means attacking for 10 damage. Start throwing around more free spells like Gush and Gitaxian Probe, not to mention Time Walk, and it's not inconceivable to put together a turn-two kill. While a turn-one Young Pyromancer can develop an overwhelming board state, it isn't actually lethal to the opponent until turn four or so.
With a Mentor and a single token to hit the opponent with, every spell cast is essentially a copy of Tendrils of Agony. Only instead of losing value on a non-lethal Tendrils, you're gaining value like it's an Empty the Warrens.
One thing I really like about Mentor is that if it gets Bolted that doesn't remove prowess from the tokens. Again, this is much more powerful than what Young Pyromancer leaves behind."
January 18, 2015 10:13 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #22
Haha, xzzane and capriom85, I'm sorry for sparking this argument up between you guys again. I want Monastery Mentor to be good in modern; but if I've learned anything over the years of playing magic, it's that speed wins the game. And removal is very much a thing in modern. I know a lot of people just wanted Monastery Mentor to be an enchantment. So, I think I am going to have to side with xzzane on this one. With that said, as VampireArmy pointed out, it is very much a thing in vintage haha.
You guys really think Soulfire Grand Master has no place for burn? I was really really hard on the card at first and then all the lifegainers were like, "...you could end the game with 40 life," and I slowly became keen to the idea. I don't really think it should be in burn since it's not very aggressive at all, it's lifegain in burn, it cost two mana, and can die easily, but I just thought it was a nice thought for a second.
January 18, 2015 10:53 p.m.
Ending a game in Burn with 40 life is the same as ending a game in Burn with 4 life. You win. Burn needs it in the mirror or against aggro to race the opponent to 0, but in most other matches it's not really that necessary since you have speed on your side and T2 you have better things to do like cast burn spells.
And it's fine to spark this discussion up. Time will tell what is going to happen in the long run and we'll see what happens with Monastery Mentor. I really think he is going to end up seeing a spot in Tokens, but who knows.
January 18, 2015 11:35 p.m.
Time will tell, that is certainly true. But I am certain it will prove me right. Mentor is not good for tokens, certainly not in this meta. It's similar to how Tidehollow Sculler has lost its usefulness. I've had this discussion with you like 3 other times. Each time I have described why it does not belong.
January 19, 2015 12:05 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #25
Yeah, I'd much rather be hitting somebody for 6 damage than playing soulfire.
January 19, 2015 12:31 a.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #26
well I made a this Monks have the ability to put pride over pain. so uh play test it please let me know how it works. I think Mentor has more potential than Grand master though.
January 19, 2015 5:54 a.m.
slovakattack - I meant that burn will play grandmaster in the sideboard. Burn wants grandmaster's lifelink when they play against other fast decks.
Burn cannot play kor firedancer or whatever the name is because WW is too hard to achieve. However I agree that against burn, if you can make the WW cost then the Kor is better.
January 19, 2015 6:53 a.m.
slovakattack says... #28
I get that, but they also have Burrenton Forge-Tender, Leyline of Sanctity...
ChiefBell says... #2
Grand master is sideboard tech in burn for the mirror match. She's good for aggro versus aggro.
She may appear in jeskai control too but this unsure.
Not sure about monastery mentor at all. I don't think anyone has big plans for him.
January 18, 2015 7:34 p.m.