Starting paper Modern - Need for economical advice
Modern forum
Posted on March 25, 2023, 8:24 a.m. by pULE_BlueGoat
Hi, I've been playing Modern for a few years with my friends using proxy decks, I think the format is really fun but I never considered actually buying a deck because it was just too much money and I'd rather keep playing for free with my friends. Recently, though, I've been more interested to play in tournaments against new people, but I still need to be more conscious about a few things, since it's difficult for me to make such an expense. Here's something I thought:
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Many suggest starting with a budget deck, and then upgrading it afterwards. Seems reasonable, but I tried to proxy a few budget decks, and even if playing with a weaker deck might have some benefits, it's just not the same fun in my opinion. But more importantly: aren't you just going to spend more money overall? Plus, you delay your opportunity to have an optimized deck. a) The less the cards cost, the more you pay proportionally in shipping costs when ordering them. For example, if i start with a 100€ budget build, I'll spend like almost 50% in shipping, whereas if I pay 1000€, the shipping cost is only going to be like 10%. b) If the final goal is to have a competitive deck, this way I'd be buying more cards in general. c) There is the risk that by the time I've completed the deck, the meta might have changed and it could be less effective (or banned).
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Other players suggested me that probably Modern isn't the best way to start - I should instead begin with more accessible formats and start building a collection. Again, I don't think in my case this makes much sense: as before, I would be spending more overall, with no guarantee that the same cards will be played in my modern deck. And modern it's just the format I enjoy, anyway.
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The approach I tend to lean towards at the moment is this: against common opinion, it would seem wiser to invest something like 1000€ in one go to just buy the deck - with the idea to resell the cards once I get bored or the deck becomes not really viable. This is not possible with a budget deck, as most of the value I spent would be on shipping. It's inevitable that I'll lose quite a bit of money (shipping cost, cards losing value) but idk I still think it might be my best option.
Does this all make sense to you? Or do you have any other suggestion? Thanks in advance! :D
Daveslab2022 says... #3
As to your point in reselling the cards - I would not recommend this at all. Mostly because you’re going to be selling them to the store for 50% value, or selling them online for 90% value but then having to pay shipping and handling on top of that.
Say you buy a $50 card. If it stays at $50, the most return you’d see is going to be $40. They would buy it for $45 and because it’s a valuable card you’d need to spring for the safest shipping method possible, usually around $5 in my area.
March 25, 2023 10:36 a.m.
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March 25, 2023 11:34 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
As one of the resident Olds on this site I’d like to give a little more generalized advice, that dovetails/repeats Daveslab2022 good advice: any time you catch yourself thinking “and then I can sell (thing) to someone else who’ll pay (amount) for it” I want you to pause and realize that you are that “someone else” already for someone else. When your plan relies on finding a sucker, you’re the sucker. Now: you never implied anything malicious like that here, which is awesome, but this life lesson is super important to learn and can be devastating to learn the wrong way. END-UNREQUESTED-OLDMAN-ADVICE If you are thin on money, I think your current kitchen table plan is perfect. Again, Dave’s plan is also solid: lands are rarely changing in importance and utility. If you’re not going to continue enjoying magic as much without getting into modern then easing into ownership is probably safer. None of this changes the fact, though, that you’re going to be spending a not-insignificant amount of money on it. If you have some higher life priorities then please get those taken care of. Literally everything is more fun when you’ve got rent covered for the next six months.
March 25, 2023 12:07 p.m.
Where are you planning on playing Modern? If you'll just be practicing with your friends or playing at your LGS's normal weekly events, they you can get most of a meta deck and make a few budget concessions in the meantime. When I got into Modern after MH2 released, I couldn't get four copies of Wrenn and Six at the same time, so I practiced at my LGS without and got one and two at a time. If you're planning on going to 1K tournaments or RCQs, though, you might want to just get the full deck.
If you're concerned about spending your money well, focus on fetches and shocks first, then look at the most played cards in the archetypes you enjoy so you can have more flexibility. There is definitely a high cost to entry in Modern right now, but getting over the hurdles of lands, Incarnations, and sideboard cards can cut a lot of the cost of switching decks out.
March 25, 2023 2:17 p.m.
wallisface says... #7
Some thoughts, on the assumption you have the cash to splash to buy a complete deck now:
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everyone’s different, but I find I get a lot more milage from highly interactive decks - in that linear decks typically do the same thing over and over and over and it gets boring very quickly. Whatever deck you commit to, try to make sure its one you’re unlikely to get bored with quickly.
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going on from the above point, people often find themselves leaning into particular archetypes _(for me its midrange, others could be control, combo, aggro etc). Knowing which flavour of magic you prefer means you can often find cards that appear in a large swath of decks you enjoy playing. Making sure your initial deck has those cards means when/if you want to expand into playing a second deck in the future, most the costs are already potentially paid for.
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as others have already mentioned, the landbase is a large percentage of the investment, and if you invest in a decent landbase then a lot of decks/options open up to you for relatively cheap. Of particular note is that the enemy-fetches are very cheap at the moment due to mh2.
Aside from all that, i’d suggest seeing if your area has something like a facebook buy/sell group/page. My area does and people are often posting up their cards/collections to sell at very attractive prices. Having access to a platform like that will not only allow you to hopefully get some of the cards you need at a cheaper price-point, but will also give you an idea of what you’ll realistically be able to sell your own collection for, if you ever did.
Just as an aside, imo Modern is the greatest format magic has by a long way - i’ve invested in dozens of decks and have had a great time, with no regrets. If you have the money to blow on a Modern deck, imo its the best & most rewarding way to enjoy the game.
March 25, 2023 5:05 p.m.
I think my advice depends on what "playing Magic for a few years" means alongside with what formats are supported by your LGS... Surprisingly Pioneer is a format a have to drive nearly an hour one way just to play where Modern is at all the shops within 15 minutes from my house... it doesn't make sense to buy into paper if you dont have a venue to play is what im getting at.
I'm assuming that if you have been playing since War of the spark/Guilds of Ravnica then you should have organically gotten a decent start on a manabase via shock lands... currently the price of a Steam Vents vs Scalding Tarn are not too far off but once upon a time this fool spent over $70 for each scalding tarn and Im assuming those prices will go back up over time unless WOTC continues to reprint them... Basically what im saying here is lands are the best investment you can make regardless of if you choose Pioneer or Modern... I have wasted so much money on underpowered decks because I was too cheap to buy a proper mana base.... but as of now the new barrier of entry might just be Modern Horizons staples in general.
So depending on what kind of product you have been buying over the last "few years"... if you were getting Modern Horizons 1 & 2 and have got yourself fetches and stocks and triomes...then you should have it made...but if you have been buying structure decks and standard products Pioneer may be the better choice for paper magic... but also depends what your LGS supports.
March 25, 2023 7:58 p.m.
wallisface says... #9
pULE_BlueGoat out of interest do you have a deck in mind for what you're wanting to build?
March 25, 2023 8:27 p.m.
I think you have a really great view on this, and the fact that you are thinking these things through now is a great way to get into things : ) It's really just a matter of what you are comfortable with, what budget fits into your lifestyle without negative effects, and what you are willing to get into to derive value in satisfaction with the game.
The hard part is that, even for people who jump in with a great plan, the vast majority of magic players will overall always have less value in their cards then they spent. The fact that there are card speculators, collectors, players who just want to hold onto cards, and the fact that WotC can and will randomly reprint cards, the world of cards holding their value for resale is always against you. If the market was strictly players and what is seeing play, cards would hold their value in a more predictable way and reselling would be more of a long term solution.
Now, it helps, it absolutely helps to sell cards to make your next deck, but you'll almost never get apples to apples, so just don't expect if you do a large initial investment for that to be it. It's more just a matter of whether your passion for the game is to the point where it makes sense to stay on the competitively viable train, knowing that you will have to pay that both up front and along the way.
March 26, 2023 6:57 p.m.
pULE_BlueGoat says... #11
Thank you all for your quick responses and valuable advice! :D These forums are a great resource I was completely underrating…
First of all, I appreciate the suggestions on the deck and the format, of course I’ll make sure to playtest long enough to understand if I like the deck sufficiently; as for the format, there are no doubts about Modern, which is conveniently the format of the weekly event held at my nearest local.
To clarify on this, I do not have problems with the fact alone of spending 1000€ in one go; I’m rather concerned of the overall expense. That’s why I think that the approach of buying slowly over time doesn't suit me, if in the end the prize is going to be the same or probably even higher.
The main thing you made me reflect on is this: you all seemed to assume that once my first deck ends up being obsolete (or I get bored), I would just switch deck, buy another. In this perspective, it certainly makes sense to assure that my deck contains cards that I will use in other decks (as wallisface suggested) and to start acquiring lands or even build a collection of staples (SpammyV). But my initial idea was actually to buy just this one deck, to make an experience. I considered that once I'd have to change deck it would be enough for me and I would return to the kitchen table. In this view, reselling cards was not intended as a mean to ease the next purchase, but rather to make up (partially) for the initial expense, so as to reduce the overall loss. On second thought, I can probably predict quite accurately that I will still enjoy playing Magic in a few months, and it would suck to be forced to stop. So if I then want to keep playing (and spending
March 27, 2023 7:56 a.m.
pULE_BlueGoat says... #13
), I’ll make sure not to impulsively resell lands or other staple cards, as suggested.
Ultimately, the question becomes: do I have to consider that I might want to keep playing and buying other decks? It’s of course a subjective choice, which Niko9 highlighted very well, and which I will evaluate after the first experience, but I would still like to know the perspective of other players: - What makes spending continuously into the game worth it for you? - Why do you prefer going to tournaments instead of playing everything you want for free with proxies?
Thanks in advance.
Btw, since I was asked, the deck I’m currently leaning towards is Devoted Combo, which seems to be the one I enjoy the most during playtesting… It may not be the most interactive one but it seems complex enough for me and I’ve always liked combo decks. The downside may be that not a lot of cards in it are also played in other decks I might like… Thoughts on this?
Icbrgr, you must have misunderstood, I’ve been playing exclusively with proxies, meaning I don’t own any valuable card that’s actually played in modern.
March 27, 2023 7:58 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #14
I bought the vast majority of my cards pre-2006 (mostly in the 90s, really). I largely only buy singles from my LGS for Commander decks, with some prerelease 2HG “tournaments” here and there. I think I’ve sold less than five cards in my life... it’s a one way street for me lol
March 27, 2023 11:21 a.m.
wallisface says... #15
So I guess I should note that there’s no inherent reason why you could lose interest in a deck - indeed over 50% of my local meta have just the deck that they use, with each of those people becoming experts at piloting their respective deck, and fine-tuning it to perfection.
Even from my own perspective (which i possibly projected a bit too much in my first comment) the first decks I picked up I still run and enjoy above all others (i’d first built hardened scales well-before it was part of the meta). The only real reason I have multiple decks is due to having extra “cash-to-splash”. And the only reason i’ve gotten bored with decks is due to them being too linear.
If Devoted Combo appeals to you, i’d say go for it. The deck is really fun to play, and has a surprisingly high number of “flex-slots”, allowing for a lot of flexibility and variance in deck building.
Daveslab2022 says... #2
So I recently did this. I’d been itching to get back into paper magic for 5 years. My fiancée and I agreed that dropping $1000 is irresponsible, so we discussed a budget. I could spend $30 a month, and every 4 month I could spend an additional $30.
That’s about $420 / year that I was able to spend. Then she finished the deck for me for my birthday/Christmas.
What I would recommend is starting with the lands. Lands will always be expensive while cards like Solitude might get a reprint soon and be cheaper, or become obsolete.
Fetch lands are and always will be the premium lands for the modern format. Definitely recommend starting out with buying your land base and slowly building in from there.
If you can drop $1000 like I was unable to, continue to practice with your proxy decks and find what you find the most fun.
I typically browse mtgtop8.com for spicy or interesting deck lists.
I’m currently playing a Jeskai Control deck with 2 murktide and 2 Ragavan. It’s really fun but not a meta deck in any way.
Another thing - when you start playing in tournaments, when you start doing well, most stores give out store credit as a prize. So you can definitely build up a collection with just one deck that you get really good with.
Cheers and best of luck.
March 25, 2023 10:34 a.m.