Still learning elves
Modern forum
Posted on Dec. 11, 2015, 11:42 p.m. by ComradeJim270
First off, thanks to everyone who helped in my last thread; you guys are awesome and I used a lot of that advice to gather useful information.
That said, there's still some things about my deck (elves, obviously) that I'm not clear on. I've noticed a few things;
- RG Tron seems to automatically win off a turn 2 Pyroclasm unless I have godly luck. Not sure what to do to smooth out that matchup on the whole.
- Sideboarding is still a pain in the ass, and isn't intuitive at all. It feels like it falls into three categories: "Chord/Company targets", "stuff I'll never draw" and "stuff I never seem to need". Is that just how it works for a linear deck?
- Opening with a mana dork 95% of the time may not be the right play. But a T1 Heritage Druid or Nettle Sentinel potentially eating a bolt right before they get online is really unnerving. It feels like a much higher risk for a much higher payoff. Do I do it anyway?
- When do I go for broke, and when do I slow down so I don't get blown out by a sweeper? Because the latter is a thing elves can do.
I'm thinking of experimenting with a few cards. Copperhorn Scout is potentially very abusable with Ezuri and Chord, but does little on its own. Mark of Asylum and Prowess of the Fair offer resilience against sweepers. Prowess is also an elf which makes it synergize with the deck. The weird interactions it can have make me almost want to do it just for fun. I wonder if anyone thinks these are worth a shot?
I am not posting my lists here, since I'm more interested in general strategy and viable sideboard options than tweaking decklists right now.
Any advice is appreciated, as always.
ComradeJim270 says... #3
Thanks for the response, Necrotize.
The problem I've had a lot is that Pyroclasm often happens before I have the mana to use any kind of an answer. It takes a lot of luck to have what I need to drop two lords before they can play it. It seems like the only option is to play around it. Thinking of this as trading tempo for resilience does help, thanks for pointing that one out. There's always the temptation to just go for it, but that can bite you in the ass.
Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods are a much bigger problem than Damnation and Supreme Verdict. I can race the latter two.
My concern with the T1 combo piece is that they don't actually have to use the removal until I've got that third elf on the stack to get it online. That's quite a tempo loss and a more likely scenario. Do you think it's often worth the payoff?
I've seen the wisdom of going all-out in game one. I don't have any real mainboard answers other than "hit you in the face really hard" so it's certainly the best route to go a lot of the time. The only problem I've encountered doing this is games where I win in 3-4 turns and am not sure if I just beat Grixis Twin or Grixis Control. That makes sideboarding tricky.
December 12, 2015 12:46 a.m.
The trick with beating Pyroclasm is to not overextend. Just because you can cast a bunch of guys doesn't mean you should. I think the important thing is getting enough mana to set up a Chord of Calling or Collected Company, then casting it after they Pyroclasm. You'll want to bait them into it with one or two mana dorks.
I'm not sure if you've tried it, but you can do a lot with Wren's Run Vanquisher. Not only does it dodge Pyroclasm, but it eats Wurmcoil Engines and other problematic threats. I also see your deck doesn't have Joraga Warcaller or Oran-Rief, the Vastwood. While a bit slower, they do explode on turns three and four. These are all maindeck answers.
December 12, 2015 3:24 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #5
@sylvannos: That's good advice. The temptation with Tron is to just go full throttle anyway, because if they live long enough to get Ugin out the game is over. But there are always these "ifs", and getting blown out like that is a lot more likely.
I might experiment with the Vanquisher as a one-of, but I'm not sure what I'd do with it. It does trade with Wurmcoil, but then they have two creatures, which is even more annoying in some ways.
Now, Oran-Rief and Warcaller are both things I considered in the past. My main concern with Oran-Rief was that in a land-light deck that wants to go this fast, coming in tapped was a huge downside. Playing it turn one against decks with red sweepers is an interesting idea though. Sideboard, perhaps?
I'll experiment with the Warcaller. It's hard to go wrong with a one-drop elf in this deck, and he just gets better with more mana.
Thoughts on the Mark of Asylum/Prowess of the Fair sideboard idea? A slight tempo loss, but there's a definite upside.
December 12, 2015 3:43 a.m.
Phyrexian Revoker is the card that lets you play slower games against Tron. You just add enough creatures to the table to put on pressure while getting to Chord mana. That way you can sandbag stuff to kill your opponent when you get an opening. I also run 3 Lead the Stampede in my 75 to help against grindy decks. It's 3mana draw 3-4 cards against sweepers and loads of removal.
Most of the time the key to the deck is reading your opponents mana, play pattern and deck type. It takes time but once you've played enough to get proficient with the deck it's super potent against hate. I normally go x-0 or x-1 at our weekly Modern tournaments(25-35 players) and that is because I have been grinding the deck since mid spring(8-9 months now). It's the normal mantra of Modern, play the deck you like until you learn everything about it and all its matchups.
December 12, 2015 7:08 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #7
Agreed, Jojja; I mainboard three Lead the Stampede. In my experience, Chord was dead in my hand far more often or required me to sacrifice a lot of tempo. I moved it to the sideboard as a result and swap LtS out for them for faster matchups that require very specific answers (e.g. Infect).
I might actually borrow a friend's Tron deck to get a feel for it so I'll understand it better.
Necrotize says... #2
Well, for the Pyroclasm problem, you either need more Elf Lords that give +1/+1 to get them out of range(at the cost of tempo) or run something like Burrenton Forge-Tender in the side for an easy T1 play to not completely lose tempo but still protect your elves. Plus it can be grabbed by your tutors. I'm personally a fan of Dromoka's Command for that purpose though, although you can't get away with just 1 in the sideboard since you can't tutor for it.
As for sideboarding in Elves, it's really luck of the draw. Sometimes if you have a good enough starting hand you can keep it, other times you want to mulligan and hope for the card you sided. If you know they can side in early wipes to shut you down, take aggressive mulligans.
Removal is removal. If they have it, that sucks. But if you just play nothing or delay your plans by a turn or two, they're still gonna have that removal plus extra time to draw into more.
Knowing when to go for broke really depends on the meta and the archetype you're facing. Play aggressively game one to try and seal the deal quickly and figure out what they're running and start thinking about what they could sideboard later to stop you. Then maybe play more cautiously in later games.
December 12, 2015 12:15 a.m.