The New Modern Meta: Analyzing What Once Was Good.
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 21, 2015, 10:39 p.m. by Femme_Fatale
So, this is basically going to be a discussion as to how certain cards that were once good (or bad) in modern have changed because of the bannings. And there's a lot that has changed. I'm going to do a run down of which cards I think have become worse in the new meta. I do not know much about which cards have become better, and I would like the community here to discuss both of these.
Please note that I'm not saying that these cards should not be used or are unplayable, I'm just saying that with the change in meta, their usefulness and once exalted power level status is no longer than high. It is this thread in which we discuss these things.
Cryptic Command. Down in value. With turn 2 and turn 3 threats being really prevalent, a turn 4 counterspell just doesn't hold its own as much as it used to. Not much value is lost from this, but I believe that it is weaker in the current meta.
Dark Confidant: Down in value. With black decks primarily being Abzan Midrange or control, Bob no longer holds the value it once did. Decks are filled with high value cards like Liliana of the Veil, Lingering Souls, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Siege Rhino. Dark Confidant basically hits you every single turn.
Harmonize: Up in Value. A card to replace Bob (and a choice for me to use instead of Sphinx's Revelation in Bant Blink control). 4 mana draw 3, sure it isn't instant, but the only card in modern that nearly gets us that close (cmc wise) is Jace's Ingenuity.
Lightning Bolt. Down in value. Well, the most prevalent creatures right now certainly evade those bolts. All of Abzan's creatures, Deceiver Exarch and Primeval Titan. Good luck bolting creatures these days. They seem to like wearing rubber.
Life's Legacy Up in Value. ... FUCK. You know, I once really complained that this card wasn't an instant. Imagine if it was an instant. Imagine that, in modern, with Abzan midrange. Oh, so you Path to Exile my Siege Rhino? Well, I sac it and draw 4. I think WotC did us a favour in not making this an instant. But I still think it can be used. I mean come on, sac'ing a Tarmogoyf to draw 4 cards for 2 mana? Some can say nay, some may say yay. I say yay. Draw a card is the most important phrase in modern.
Momentous Fall. Up in Value. Sideboard tech for Abzan midrange against Burn?
Path to Exile. Down in value. It has definitely become one of the best removals, I daresay trumping Lightning Bolt. Because anything bolt can't get rid of, Path to Exile certainly gets rid of.
Polymorphist's Jest. Up in Value. I don't know about anyone here, but I'm loving this card as an anit-Abzan sideboard card. It also works against tron, infect, merfolk and hatebears so I hope for this card to see some more play.
Remand. Down in value. Ah Remand. You were once good when Pod and delver were at the top. But now, you've lost that value. Remand'ing a burn spell? It hits you back. Remand'ing a Liliana of the Veil? Next turn Seige Rhino comes out followed by turn 5 Liliana of the Veil + Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Remand something from Bloom Titan? Well, it just comes out next turn. Point is, is that the decks now a days don't really care about that turn loss as their tempo just continues on.
Snapcaster Mage. Down in value. With Scavenging Ooze coming back, this is bound to get hurt. But the main reason why snappy is going down in value (in terms of when it is played in a deck) is because all the other tempo/cheap instants and sorceries are going down. And lets face it, Snapcaster Mage doesn't really do much as a body against the creatures from Abzan, Bloom Titan, Zoo and affinity.
Spell Snare. Down in value. With a format laden with either one drop removals, uncounterable removals, or 3+ sorceries and creatures, Spell Snare becomes that dreaded dead draw in anything but the opening hand. Well, I guess it becomes fodder for something: Lili.
Spellskite. Down in value. It just feels like this has lost its appeal. And that is mainly because against Abzan midrange and Bloom Titan it doesn't do anything. It is laden with 4 power creatures afterall, so people are more expected to sideboard things that can deal with those things along with Splinter Twin. Like removal.
Sphinx's Revelation. Iffy. I actually don't know if this is better or worse in modern right now. I personally think better because of burn and discard prevalence in Abzan Midrange. But then again, I don't really know too well as I just started playing a hefty control deck.
Vendilion Clique. Down in value. Used to be so good back when pod was around. Used to be able to flash it in, trade it with Delver of Secrets Flip and chuck something else out of their hand. Now it becomes a fly against abzan, does nothing against burn, and Bloom Titan just tutors again and again or plays another win condition out of the 6-8 that they have.
Wraths. Up in Value. Probably the best thing against abzan. If you can survive Lili.
Think my choices are good or not? Discuss! Let us see if we can find something that becomes of use in the new meta.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
Like if Life's Legacy was instant speed, the Abzan meta would be like, 60% right now.
February 21, 2015 10:44 p.m.
I'm not sure how Remand goes down. Remand has always been a can trip time walk. It keeps your opponent one turn behind which is good. Reading your list, it seems you don't like counter magic. UWx is going to be one of the strongest archetypes in modern....
February 21, 2015 10:47 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #6
I've been playing control/combo control within the past month. And the pod banning has made the meta result in these value changes. The reason why I speak mainly about counterspells is because I'm playing control. I haven't really played any other deck beyond that. Ever try and use Remand against a Bloom Titan deck? It just doesn't do anything.
I also forgot about Mana Leak. I certainly don't like that card either and against Bloom Titan it doesn't do much. and Negate ... hard to say. Reality Shift? If you can deal with a 2/2 than yes, definitely up in value.
February 21, 2015 10:51 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #8
Did I put down in value?
Oops.
I meant up in value. Sorry Tibbles.
February 21, 2015 11:10 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #10
Cryptic Command isn't just a counterspell. It has 3 other modes, all of which help out in a plethora of different situations. Staring down an army of big dudes? Tap 'em down! They have a problematic permanent? Bounce it! Running out of fuel? Cycle it in addition to doing other things! Cryptic will either retain it's value or go up since Twin is all the rage these days and Control seems strong now.
Remand is only really good when the opposing deck is on curve and tapping out all the time. If they play a T3 Liliana of the Veil or a T4 Siege Rhino, you are literally getting a Time Walk by Remanding it. However, against burn it is less good, but Burn players cry when you Remand their suspended Rift Bolt.
Spell Snare is the shit. It still counters a lot of stuff, such as: Voice of Resurgence, Scavenging Ooze, Snapcaster Mage, Summer Bloom, Tarmogoyf, Remand, any 2 mana burn spell (there are 4 main ones, 5 if you count Skullcrack), Eidolon of the Great Revel, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Cranial Plating and Vault Skirge. There are plenty of other things it counters as well.
Path to Exile is the 2nd best removal to have against Twin Exarch (the 1st being Abrupt Decay). They have a bad day if they want to get greedy and try for the T4 Twin. Path does something though, it gets rid of Siege Rhino, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Tarmogoyf. I don't see this going anywhere really.
And that's what I have to say about what you have to say about modern.
February 21, 2015 11:11 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #11
Excuse the "path is going down" portion of that PhyrexianScience, but the rest of the description for path is meant that it is going up in value. I
I see Abzan, Burn and Bloom Titan being what are played the most in the meta. I haven't seen a Twin player in ... a very long time.
And I say this from my experience in playing these cards. I hate using Spell Snare because it is a dead draw far too many times. It doesn't actually stop the decks that are relevant in modern right now. Sure you countered Summer Bloom, but then so many other cards pop up instead to proc the combo. It doesn't actually stop the win conditions nor the the tutors, nor the other 2 methods of bringing out the win conditions really quickly. Most of Abzan's deck can't be countered by Spell Snare. Utron laughs at you.
Burn players still use Rift Bolt? I certainly don't.
February 21, 2015 11:25 p.m.
im so tired, but i care about this discussion much. tomrw.
February 21, 2015 11:31 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #13
I feel like your assessment that the metagame is aggressive is fairly innaccurate, Burn and Infect are the only two decks that I would consider aggressive and seeing play.
The rest of the Meta is midrangey, Hence Cryptic Command is an excellent card, Remand isnt always going to be good, so saying its bad because burn is an archetype is just silly, Burn has always been an archetype, Affinity has always been an archetype. This does not make Remad unplayable, The Tempo advantage it gives is amazing.
Bolt doesn't kill much Junk stuff or Amulet stuff, but it kills all the burn decks creatures.
February 21, 2015 11:34 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #14
Femme_Fatale I usually go to MTGGoldfish to find out meta statistics. Right now Twin is the second most played deck in the MTGO and big tournament modern meta at 7.5% of the meta.
Spell Snare is a bit clunky, I'll give you that. When it is a dead draw, it is a dead motherfucking draw. At least with Remand you get to draw when you resolve it.
Rift Bolt is used fairly frequently, I'd say (scroll to the very bottom), even showing up in competitive Legacy decks.
February 21, 2015 11:37 p.m.
I would say Spellskite when UP due to the rise of Infect and other aggro strategies. but that's just me.
February 21, 2015 11:39 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #16
So all I've got so far are people complaining about my choices. Anyone got any other cards to add that went up or down in the new meta?
February 21, 2015 11:41 p.m.
Crazybop09 says... #17
id probably add Blood Moon up in value, seeing as it beats bloom titan usually 99% of the time and really hurts infect/abzan
February 21, 2015 11:55 p.m.
Femme_Fatale I didn't mean to sharpshoot you, I merely disagree with remand. I believe it has real value in the meta. I agree with Path, harmonize, and life's legacy. I believe Snapcaster will go up. See UWx and bloom titan. Thoughtseize and Inquisiton will trend upwards and I can see Leylines seeing more play., specifically sanctity for the Abzan mirror and others. Hushwing gryff and aven mind censor will trend upwards as well. I think cavern of souls will start seeing more play as people try to bring tier 2 decks into the 1.5 / 1 spotlight. I have a lot of other thoughts but I'm tired.
February 21, 2015 11:55 p.m.
I've started taking my Grafdigger's Cage's out of my sideboard due to pod being banned. There is nothing really prevalent in the meta that would warrant it a spot. So I would say it lost value. I could be overlooking something though. I feel like I am missing a deck that it is good in.
February 22, 2015 12:04 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #20
A discussion with CurdBrosBrewingCo was what brought this thread on. Seeing if he has any points to add.
February 22, 2015 1:27 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #21
FEMME YOUR CHOICES SUCK
Just kidding.
You seem to discuss Bloom Titan alot. Is it actually prevalent in the competitive scene these days, or is it just running around in your circles? You also always mention that its not effective to combat its strategies with counters and targeted discard.... And I cant help but think, if that's the case, why isn't everyone playing it?
February 22, 2015 1:32 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Its not as effective as it would be against other combo decks is what I should say. Bloom Titan from those that I've faced have been nigh unbeatable. Not even Vendilion Clique with 5 blink effects backing it up was able to stop it.
February 22, 2015 1:51 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #24
Oh, and Blood Moon. I had a few rage quit on me g2 after playing Blood Moon.
But if you don't have red than Meddling Mage.
February 22, 2015 1:55 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #25
Dark Confidant has actually gone up in value. After the DRS ban, it got worse, and worse again with KTK, but now it's playable again.
Lightning Bolt is never bad. Yeah, it can't hit Siege Rhino, but burn spells are burn spells.
Spell Snare and Snapcaster Mage are better when in the same deck.
Vendilion Clique is definitely better. With more combo decks being played, you can extract their pieces more efficiently. It's no Thoughtseize, but has some benefits over it.
Cryptic Command is better because of all the midrange. What's better than tapping a Rhino, Goyf and Scooze, while also countering a T5 Lili?
February 22, 2015 1:59 a.m.
slovakattack says... #26
I do disagree with both Snappy and Cryptic Command. Especially Cryptic Command. It' an absolute house, and it's 'tapping down an opponent's creatures' ability is more relevant now than it ever really was. before.
I don't really have any cards to add to the list, as most of the stuff is just obvious.
February 22, 2015 2:13 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #27
Every combo deck has enablers, Storm has Rituals and cantrips, Living End has abilities that put stuff in the graveyard.
So when attacking a combo you can take out enablers by adding a Relic of Progenitus against graveyard based combos for example.
Having a maindeck way to counter a lot of the combo enablers is invaluable, in a blue on blue matchup it hits Snappy, Mana leak and Remand which is extremely relevant
February 22, 2015 2:31 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #28
I am going to disagree with some of your choices as well. I think Remand is fantastic right now. Sure, they can recast the card the following turn. but Remand has always allowed them to do that. the value is in the tempo you gain from setting them back a turn. Cryptic Command becomes much more relevant, as well, when you are setting your opponents back.
I also think Spellskite is fantastic against the meta. in a combo deck, you protect your combo. against burn, save yourself some life. against combo? redirect their Splintertwin or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle triggers. See how it can be valuable?
I don't think Sphinx's Revelation is going anywhere. it hasn't gotten worse, in my opinion. but it really isn't much better, either.
As far as cards to add: Splintertwin will probably go up. same with Primeval Titan and Hivemind.
February 22, 2015 3:47 a.m.
Cryptic command is still amazing. Being able to draw a card and tap everything down for a turn is really significant. It's still the spell control needs.
Dark confidant has only gone down because people would rather play Taz. You can play DC with 4 drops, but not 5 drops. There actually are a few decks that forgo Taz for DC. The problem is that these decks typically run more cheap removal spells, but current midrange abzan lists aren't vulnerable to removal. Neither siege rhino nor Taz are hit by abrupt decay or slaughter pact and therefore a lot of the cards you're drawing are a bit useless.
February 22, 2015 5:41 a.m.
I disagree with a fair amount of these assessments for t1/1.5 decks
February 22, 2015 5:49 a.m.
Cryptic Command down in value? On the contrary, both the Lorwyn and MM version have been going up in price day after day for the past two weeks. Their average price(s) are now within a dollar or so of their all-time high. I suspect they'll even surpass it within the week. Not surprising though, it's a phenominal card.
February 22, 2015 5:56 a.m.
In that case, I would still agree to disagree. With Treasure Cruise gone, Cryptic Command has become even more neccessary for the draw alone. And like you said, with T2 and T3 bringing bigger threats, a T4 CC give you plenty of options. I wouldn't built a competitive blue deck with out at least a couple of them in it.
February 22, 2015 6:21 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #34
I have played against a few of the junk decks going around with my grixis control list (does this RUB you the wrong way?), and I have to say that I don't have much issue with junk. they are not nearly as attrition oriented as they used to be, they are more goodstuff than anything else. and you know what beats goodstuff? Damnations and Wrath of Gods. and countermagic for that matter
February 22, 2015 12:34 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #36
The other thing I saw that im not sure about is Life's Legacy. why sac a Tarmogoyf to draw 4 when you could just be attacking with it? it just doesn't seem good. that being said, I hope you are right about it. I have over 30 copies of it.
February 22, 2015 1:37 p.m.
Yeh I also don't see any point in it. Modern is midrange now. No need for card advantage when your creatures are nigh on unstoppable.
February 22, 2015 1:42 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #38
I'm getting a strong impression that Femme_Fatale was going over these cards from a personal standpoint, rather than a competitive one. Sure, your assessments may be correct for your own deck, but your deck is not the current meta.
February 23, 2015 2:49 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #39
Hmm ... you are right about that. I created this thread because my feelings for these spells were reflected in a Jeskai tempo player's thoughts about them. It would seem that I fallen for confirmation bias in applying what was only to a few select decks to the whole meta. My apologies.
February 23, 2015 3:38 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #40
Accepting that your potentially wrong about something? Especially on the Internet, Hats off to ya!
February 23, 2015 3:43 a.m.
slovakattack says... #42
Hat's off to you, Femme.
If you ever decide to experiment with Black, consider Slaughter Pact. It's gotten tons better in this meta.
February 23, 2015 8:33 a.m.
I don't think Pact has got better given Rhino and Taz are both black. I've cut it completely. Although it's undeniably useful against Twin.
February 23, 2015 8:43 a.m.
slovakattack says... #44
It depends what junk lists you're facing. It doesn't kill rhino, but it kills Goyf, Liege, and Baloth/Smiter/Thragtusk.
I wouldn't put more than 1 in any given list, but it's not bad as a silver bullet.
February 23, 2015 8:47 a.m.
I don't think it's a silver bullet. It's still a 3 mana killspell really. The creature heavy abzan deck isn't that fantastic either.
February 23, 2015 9:28 a.m.
slovakattack says... #46
In restrospect, I used the term 'silver bullet' incorrectly. I think it's worth having against the Twin matchup. That's kinda the extent of my rational argument for it. Twin mo popular -> pact mo useful.
Osang says... #2
I think you missed that Life's Legacy is a sorcery and is not able to give you value in response to removal?
Overall, I liked the insights and the reasoning. I sure hope Cryptic Command gets below 50 again.
February 21, 2015 10:43 p.m.