The One Ring
Modern forum
Posted on July 25, 2023, 11:02 p.m. by nbarry223
I'd like to discuss what everyone thinks will be happening to The One Ring shortly following the upcoming pro tour.
It's pretty clear the card is format warping from the number of decks that are playing 4 copies currently. Most decks now either use the card, try to beat the card, or both.
Do we think the card will be banned, left alone, or is there a possibility to see the format's first Restricted card.
Personally, I can't see Wizards banning their cash cow card yet, and since restricting The One Ring to a single copy would fit thematically, I can totally see it being the first in the format.
Please feel free to discuss.
It won't get banned. They're still selling too many packs because the card
July 26, 2023 12:06 p.m.
I mean, from just a flavor perspective the fact that the one ring incentivizes decks to cycle through multiple copies is such a sigh. Although it might be an even bigger flavor flop if they do have to ban it and then players are left with a lord of the rings set except you can't use the one ring. It's all kind of a mess. The one ring is not only proving to be very powerful but leads to stale stalling boardstates and the whole design really seems like a commander card that was put into multiple formats.
My big worry is that it will get things like Emry, Lurker of the Loch banned instead of hitting the ring. Actually, maybe my big worry is that Wizards will say, hey we printed a really powerful one ring and it tempted players to use it, it's perfect!
I don't know, I'm just having trouble with the lotr set. I love the world, I really want to like the cards, but I'm definitely having trouble with it.
July 26, 2023 2:43 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
100% in the same boat as Niko9. I don’t think I’ll even end up buying any singles... specifically avoiding putting words in Niko’s mouth, I’ll say that to ME it just doesn’t feel right. Not a fan.
July 26, 2023 6:44 p.m.
FormOverFunction It's absolutely a feel thing : ) I actually really like the art, but I don't think it's for me. Guess I was really hoping it would be the set to light my magic fire again because I really love middle earth, but I just don't see anything there. There's definitely some flavor, but a lot of the cards are just doing generic magic things rather than being a game piece that feels like a character you know.
They made sure to hit the memes, but after that it's definitely a magic set with some lord of the rings spilled on it. Like, why does everything have to draw cards? What does Faramir, Prince of Ithilien have to do with drawing cards? What does Boromir, Warden of the Tower have to do with countering spells? What does Minas Tirith the citadel, the first defense against Mordor, have to do with drawing cards and attacking creatures?
There are things that hit the lore mark, but the whole thing feels (to me at least) thrown together, and when it's trying to emulate a fiction that is so well thought out, has such depth of character and atmosphere, that's why it doesn't hit for me.
Ha, maybe I'm just stuck in, this isn't my lotr, or this isn't my magic, and I'm really sorry if I'm derailing the conversation at all. I guess I just really wish that they made one version of each character, and really made each one feel like their character. I thought the Street Fighter cards did a great job of that, and when I saw those I thought, wow universes beyond might actually be really fun sometimes, but now I see lord of the rings and it's like where's the magic, where's the world? All I see is food tokens and "if thing then draw a card".
July 26, 2023 8:54 p.m.
In all fairness, not everything translates well to magic mechanics. Could they have done some things better? Definitely. LOTR was one of the better designed sets in my opinion. Is it overpriced with a bunch of bulk rares? Once again, yes.
I’m just glad it didn’t turn into a MH3 with a bunch of staples for the format (The One Ring being the obvious exception).
I feel they could have done so much worse with the set given their previous track record, so I will take the overall power level and decent amount of flavor wins as an overall victory.
I have complaints about it, but it’s improbable for them to release a perfect set that everyone thinks is perfect in all ways.
I think that if we were to ever see a start of a restricted or semi-restricted list for the format, The One Ring would be the card to do it.
In my opinion the format would be a lot healthier if some of the staples that see too much play were limited to some degree.
I’d personally love to see the ring set to 1 copy, the MH2 elementals limited to 2 copies, and maybe even the red monkey that everyone either hates or loves limited as well. I’m fine with him being 4 copies though, since having red aggro decks helps patrol the format (reprint him more to make it a more accessible staple though).
Then modern would feel like modern again without completely devaluing the newer modern targeted cards. I only feel they are unhealthy for the format when they are so build-around
July 27, 2023 12:03 a.m.
nbarry223 That's true, and in a lot of ways lord of the rings is especially hard because it has a mostly soft magic system and that doesn't translate well into mtg, but I really feel like if the ideas of universes beyond is to bring fans of other things to magic, they should maybe be shooting for wowing fans rather than just making the thing the card.
This set has just really made me think, the decision to do lotr in magic wasn't made with, can we do this well in mind, it was just, are there enough fans to buy this? If so then throw magic effects on stuff and call it good.
Like, Orcish Bowmasters is getting a lot of attention because it's a really great commander card, and it's a really fun design in my opinion for commander, but why do orcs punish card draw? The orc army that is backed by the open use of magic and physical manipulation who are fighting humans who's strength is coming together in times of need. Why does Lembas draw cards? Throwing random magic effects on things from middle earth makes them feel like neither.
: ) and I mean, I know it will never be perfect, and there are probably lots of people who love the set, and it's all good. I just really wish the design process was more of, what does Gandalf the magic card look like, rather than, lets make a bunch of Gandalfs that do generic magic stuff and fans of the character can pick the one they like.
I don't know, it was just kind of a realization with this set maybe. Wizards both won't say no to an IP if it doesn't work, or won't really sit down to make it special if it's hard. If people like it, I guess it's okay, I was just really hoping for something that celebrated middle earth rather than just used it.
July 27, 2023 8:03 a.m.
I completely agree with that, but at the end of the day you have to realize wizards is a business trying to make money.
It would take a lot of research to do what you are talking about, and it is also something where the more knowledge someone has about a specific subject, the harder they are to please.
The people designing the set were probably not subject matter experts in all things middle earth, so your expectations may have been a little high.
July 27, 2023 9:39 a.m.
Yep, that's fair, my expectations may have been a little high : )
July 27, 2023 4:03 p.m.
wallisface says... #11
Back to the original ban talk, for the pro tour they’ve listed the total number of cards being run in the tourney, with the One Ring being top-dog.
Numbers are (total/main/side):
The One Ring: 450/415/35
Orcish Bowmasters: 413/406/7
Fury: 376/290/86
Chalice of the Void: 355/2/353
Misty Rainforest: 328/328/0
Thoughtseize: 303:230:73
Force of Negation: 302/276/26
Boseiju, Who Endures: 287/172/115
Swamp: 285/285/0
Endurance: 272/27/245
Subtlety: 271/233/38
Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer: 270/266/4
Grief: 266/264/4
Leyline Binding: 258/258/0
Flooded Strand: 255/255/0
Lightning Bolt: 253/248/5
Island: 251/251/0
Bloodstained Mire: 236/236/0
These stats surely don’t help the Rings odds of staying legal.
July 27, 2023 6:36 p.m.
wallisface says... #12
What are peoples opinions after seeing which decks made the Top 8?
I still feel like the ring is a massive, massive problem, and the whole event illustrates this - but the top-8 breakdown might justify to Wotc that the card can stay.
July 30, 2023 5:21 a.m.
I don’t know, every deck in the format either uses the ring or is designed to go under or punish it.
That is exemplified in the top 8. I still feel the card needs something done to it (I’d like to see it limited) but I don’t see them banning their flagship card from the set this early yet.
I am of the opinion that if we made certain cards 1-2 copies instead of outright banning them, the format could be healthier. The MH2 elementals are only a problem because you can make them consistent enough at 8 copies in 2 colors as an example. Cut them down to 2 copies per deck and they can no longer be built around.
The ring should go down to 1 copy in my opinion. I know that is all unprecedented but I think it would go a long way to making the format healthier. Certain cards on the banlist could be demoted as well, like the artifact lands. They are only there because 4 copies is just too strong.
July 30, 2023 8:42 a.m.
wallisface says... #14
nbarry223 i hard disagree that reducing copies of cards helps the format, or even does what you’re after.
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Modern is a format that prides itself on being one of the few (only?) formats where piloting ability trumps deck selection. Reducing card quantities only serves to increase randomness and goes against that ethos.
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Reducing card quantities doesn’t make those cards any weaker - it just means they’ll feel (and be) a lot more impactful when they hit, making games a lot more swingy and chaotic.
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Furthermore, because less copies are run, people will generally run less answers to such cards, meaning when they do get played they have an even bigger stranglehold on the board.
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in the case of the ring, Karn, the Great Creator exists and can just tutor it anyway.
I think this idea would only serve to reduce the impact of player agency, and make game outcomes faar more reliant on card draws. I don’t think that’s a healthy direction to push the game, nor is it an appropriate way to handle overpowered cards that dominate/warp the format.
July 30, 2023 3:38 p.m.
is Leyline of Punishment worth experimenting with against The One Ring?
I've been playtesting Caveman ungbunga pure burn lists recently and I was wondering if it seems to anyone else like a interesting tech piece to get around the Protection clase the ring provides.... kinda like using Skullcrack against somone with Kor Firewalker?
August 3, 2023 2:58 p.m.
wallisface says... #16
Icbrgr burn lists should be advantaged bs most ring decks anyway. That Leyline probably lowers your win odds cause its one-less burn spell in hand. Considering most burn spells are instant speed, its already trivially easy to play around the protection - its only really the creatures that have to chill for a turn. Imo not worth it.
August 3, 2023 3:27 p.m.
Agreed, any instant speed spell or things that don’t target - each opponent loses x life etc are already well positioned against the ring since they essentially ignore its protection. The problem is it blankets most strategies essentially becoming a pseudo time walk against most decks if you are able to ignore any board progress with your respective strategy (able to win through the board state, reset it with a board wipe, etc).
wallisface says... #2
Further discussion from an earlier thread on the same topic here.
Personally I feel:
there is a 0% chance they restrict the card to being one-copy. That’s not something that’s been done in almost all eternal formats so far, and for good reason. I don’t see that stance changing.
With current playrates and format warping-ness, imo the card will defo be getting a ban at somestage this year or next.
I really hope it gets banned after the pro tour, but Wotc have a history of letting formats rot while their money-machines keep piling up the cash, so i’m on-the-fence as to whether they’ll actually pull the plug.
There’s a chance the ring brings a few cards with it, the sane way Hogaak did. I wouldn’t be surprised if when they ban the ring, they also ban Omnath and maybe some part of Scam (the main deck fighting this ringpiece nonsense - and so likely to do very well in the tour).
July 25, 2023 11:17 p.m.