Tron lands without exped map etc.
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 18, 2019, 3:12 a.m. by Vman
Building a very juicy colorless deck, originally the manabase was full of utility but now ive been conaidering using the urza tron cycle. I can 100% handle the colorless and im running 23 lands, only 12 of which will be wasted on tron.
Does anyone here (especially tron players) have any experience about playing tron without the typical Expedition Map , Sylvan Scrying or similar? Does natural tron happen? Watching games on the scg tour online seems to say yes.
Note: im fine without t3 tron. Id just like to know if i can get it naturally by turn 4-6 in a decent amount of games
The reason tron is powerful is that it can give you 7 mana on turn 3 or 4. Later than that, it is not worth it. If you hit turn 6 tron, you will have access to 10 mana (provided no other tron lands), which is not that much more than the 6 you normally would have. And 7 of that is colorless mana, which is not very good - it means you will have 10 mana, but play a total of 2 colored spells for the turn - hardly impactful on turn 6.
February 18, 2019 3:52 a.m.
If its any relevant insight im playing both Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista , the deck functions absolutely fine without tron mana, i was just wondering if the possible boost os worth it over playing more random colorless lands. T6 10 mana is quite nice if it happens on a decent basis :)
February 18, 2019 4:03 a.m.
Incidentally, why do you not want to play map and sylvan scrying? And what is the deck you are talking about, as without a list conjecturing is getting pointless.
February 18, 2019 4:40 a.m.
Boza its a colorless tempo prison style deck. Modelled after vintage shops and legacy steel stompy decks. Ill put up a specific list up later in the day. Im still a bit reluctant because of how much ive been changing things up heavily XD ill be on it asap!
February 18, 2019 6:31 a.m.
Metal Oppression HERES THE DECK! Drop some thoughts, especially on natural tron
February 18, 2019 7:45 a.m.
February 18, 2019 7:46 a.m.
You do not want the tron lands in that deck. There is nothing they help you cast better than regular lands, except the XX-cost creatures, and that is a miniscule upside.
February 18, 2019 8:59 a.m.
What do u suggest otherwise? Originally i had a huge LD package, swapped it for some random lifegain lands. Tried adding blue to the deck with islands but it was mediocre.
February 18, 2019 9:16 a.m.
Well, does it have to be all colorless? Vintage shops plays Lodestone Golem on turn 1, legacy prison stompy clamps on mana denial harder with blood moon effects, modern eldrazi tron actually plays eldrazi cards because they are large and effective at what they do.
This is a weird mashup of prison and affinity that does not work well - neither part compliments the other very well. Steel overseer and vault skirge have 0 synergy with thorn and even less with Chalice.
But the biggest issue with this deck is Lodestone Golem - it taxes your non-artifact spells, so you are incentivized to break the parity. However, playing that card on anything later than turn 2 will be inneffective. And not playing non-artifact spells will hurt you a lot more than an opponent having to pay an extra mana on turn 4.
I would just look at the current Whir Prison lists for some ideas on where to go.
February 18, 2019 11:58 a.m.
Dreamweav3r says... #12
In traditional Tron decks they play Map and Scrying because their deck really doesn't function until they have Tron active. (Karn looks kinda bad if it takes 7 turns to get there) They play them because they must, the deck wont work without consistent t3. Your deck looks like it can function without t3 Tron fine, and in that case it is just a huge highroll potential. But if you're adding them just for the highroll potential, wouldn't it make more sense just to add more consistently solid lands instead? Like Manlands, Horizon Canopy or Zhalfirin Void ? Getting to cast really big Walky-B's is cool and all but it does seem like winning more at that point, and winning more is a loose description because it does require a lucky draw to begin with.
February 18, 2019 3:29 p.m.
Boza Lodestone Golem has been restricted in vintage for a while so a turn 1 occurence isnt too common.
I do agree legacy prison decks are much much stronger, my goal isnt too completely lock someone out tho, its just put them to a crawl with chalice on one most of the time.
Vault Skirge is a 1 drop through. Chalice for 1 XD but i do agree its a bit wonky and im thinking of cutting it as we speak. Steel Overseer tho is great in the deck pushing golem out of burn range, ballista and hangarback to the next level.
Most of the time i find myself casting Lodestone Golem on 3 OR on 4 if i had a turn 1 Thorn of Amethyst or Chalice of the Void to slow them down.
Im very grateful u auggested whir decks, im not too familiar with them but looked it up and will take notes from it!
Dreamweav3r your probably right regarding the win more. I noticed i never felt bad not getting tron, but felt better than i already was when i did. Ill try to build a solid 12 card sub :) thanks
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #2
That's a really weird question. Yes, of course, natural Tron can happen. Now as to how often it does, it depends on your build and your 'luck' if you see what I mean.
I've played Mono U Tron back in the days and without Expedition Map , it's really tough to hit T3/4 Tron consistently, even with card draw effects and deck manipulation. You need a great opening hand, basically. That's the reason why you have Mono G Tron to have Sylvan Scrying AND map and insure a T3 Karn/Wurmcoil as consistently as possible, because this is what wins games for you.
Up to Turn 6, you should have much better chances to hit Tron, but you'd also probably be dead most of the time if you haven't done anything meaningful til then :)
February 18, 2019 3:44 a.m.