Unbanning of Treasure Dig with M16?
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 4, 2015, 11:41 p.m. by PinkyWinkyBlinky
Why can't they just reprint Bottomless Pit and make everyone happy? (Miss my pits...)
shinobigarth says... #3
i fail to see how that would make everyone happy? it would make everyone have to play delve. i wouldn't be happy.
February 4, 2015 11:53 p.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky ~ are you trolling? Cuz I feel like you're trolling. Lol.
But seriously. Not going to happen
February 4, 2015 11:58 p.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #5
U/B needs a boost, Bellock86 I mean Silumgar, the Drifting Death? Weak sauce. Doesn't WotC know that U/B control is fun to watch on the pro tour?
February 5, 2015 12:06 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #6
Ok, it was a bit of a troll, but honestly - Treasure Cruise is banned and everyone goes "yep" when really, it was diversifying and making REDWINS splash blue? But Birthing Pod everyone goes "NOOOOOOOO" and honestly it was never fun to watch. Expect for the first time I saw it. Like a year ago. Then it was suddenly old watching someone tutor for 10 minutes.
Why should Cruise never come back? And the reason they gave for Dig (it's the next best thing, and everyone will just sub that in) is a farce - if it was the truth, why didn't they ban it in legacy?
February 5, 2015 12:10 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
I'm going to move this to Modern. I'm also going to watch this thread for laughs.
February 5, 2015 12:12 a.m.
Treasure Cruise was not diversifying. it made almost ever deck that could play it, play it (unless Dig Through Time was better for that deck).
multiple decks were even splashing blue just for treasure cruise.
February 5, 2015 12:24 a.m.
Hell, it's even arguable better with costing 2B not 1BB
February 5, 2015 12:35 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #12
I know, I put together a prototype list for NOT 8 RACK and wish I had 4 more pits ;-)
But WotC say they wish modern would feature more new cards. People were playing this new card! A lot! That's a win.
They complain of the same tired lists every time. This was mixing things up! When mono-red splashes blue for cruise, it might as well throw in some minds wipe, or who knows what else.
They complain that it was forcing everyone to play it or have a way to deal with it. Not true. You can't really delve for 7 twice in a row, and even if you did play 2 of them, that would make for exciting comebacks!
We should have watched it play out and see what happened. Now, all we have is speculation.
And tears.
Tears over PODS which should be tears over BLUE! Merfolk damn yer eyes...
February 5, 2015 12:42 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #13
True, Unforgivn_II the random really made casual play more exciting and interesting! and tournament play had a higher level of anxiety and excitement to see what ends up in the yard!
Fun times, not a broken card, and it should see a reprint in M16.
If the cruise was a 1 way ticket so be it, but bring back FUN cards that make the game FUN, isn't that what cruise was supposed to be anyway? Idk if anyone played back in P9 days, I started at Ice Age (Necropotence) but things were fun when they were fun.
Now you gotta wear a seatbelt, take your shoes off at the airport, lock your front door at night, at genuinely fight for your right to party!
February 5, 2015 12:47 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #14
As someone who owns 900 copies of treasure cruise, I feel it's fair to say that you both have no idea how good this card is, and are taking this banning worse than you should be. You're also just repeating things that other people have already written in articles. Come back with an original argument and we'll submit it to wotc asap.
February 5, 2015 1:12 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #15
In TolarianCommunityCollege and Wedge's 2nd episode of 'Dies to Removal', they discussed this.
Yes, Cruise was being played everywhere, but so is Tarmogoyf, and Liliana of the Veil. All of those 3 cards are oppressive. Cruise created a different meta, and while a lot of people played it, a lot of decks thrived because of it. Soul Sisters became instantly better because Delver was popular. T2 strategies which preyed upon particular T1 decks were also looking pretty decent at a non-PT level.
I can see Dig and Pod being unbanned, because they probably shouldn't have been banned at all, but even though Cruise added to diversity, it was just too good for modern. In legacy, Cruise was fine. There was nothing wrong with it. Dig is also legal in legacy, which is weird, because Wizards said that Dig filled the same slot that Cruise did, so they banned both in modern, while leaving Dig legal in legacy. Contradiction!
Wizards were pressured into the bannings, and really should have waited before making the hasty (and bad) decision they did. Now that the cards are banned, Wizards should wait for a while to see what the meta becomes now before unbanning anything that isn't broken. With patience, we will have Dig and Pod modern legal again, and with appropriate answers to them (DRS, anyone?).
TL;DR Cruise was too good for modern, but Dig and Pod should be unbanned in around a year or two.
February 5, 2015 1:40 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #16
Sorry, ThatJunkMage, I don't read blogs (or write for them), I was just thinking of how I'd like a reprint of Bottomless Pit as it was fun! and it reminded me of pre Necropotence ban days! and how it's fun to break the game sometimes, and infinite mana to Sacred Mesa combo, etc. I've been away for 15 years from mtg, and it seems a bit less "fun" a lot more refined (that's not a bad thing, necessarily), and a lot more corporate and cash optimized. I just learned WotC was bought by Hasboro? Sad. Kind of like when TSR went away, or Black Isle Studios, (Nintendo soon enough...)
Also a reintroduction of the Flashback mechanic could make delving a lot bigger of a cost. The problem is that there's little downside to delving right now. The whip and a couple others, but in general, it's fine to empty your graveyard these days.
If graveyard cards were more useful (like more whip effects a la Alesha, Who Smiles at Death et cetera), delve would be a harsh cost, and cruise would be fine. It would cost maybe a single blue, but at what cost?
Does that argument hold water? Has it been tossed around a lot? I only just came up with it as I was typing...
February 5, 2015 1:42 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #17
PinkyWinkyBlinky reading your earlier comment, UB control is not a good deck in modern. If it was it wouldn't use Silumgar, the Drifting Death. thats standard.
February 5, 2015 1:43 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #18
awesomeguy37 that part was a joke! but also remembering the fact that WotC wants fresh cards played in modern, and that was the only U/B card I could think of that people would def recognize. Wasn't serious, I hate watching U/B and would never play it in constructed.
Just clearing that up.
February 5, 2015 1:46 a.m.
I like U/B control((Not that I play it persay, don't have the cards to make it good)), but that's probably because of the fact that I've loved Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, and I guess it's just nice seeing him used.
February 5, 2015 1:53 a.m.
I don't have a copy of him unfortunately, which is a real shame. My friend pulled him at a pre-release and it was painful for me. It's like 'I-I-I wanted t-that...'
February 5, 2015 1:56 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #23
Give me 20 mountains and 40 Lightning Bolts any day over a u/b plains walker (to be fair, plains walkers are weird to me, being "new" to mtg again... I thought I was the plains walker... Does that come to reason that someone could summon me to play next to their library? I'm confused about the lore, but that's neither here not there...
I miss Banding.
February 5, 2015 2:11 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #24
its not so much you're summoning a fellow planeswalker as it is you're saying "hey come help me!" and sending the message out through the multiverse to wherever they are. the loyalty counters lore-wise represents how interested they are in helping you out. + abilities are things they are good at and like to do, the - ones are things that take a lot of power from them or they aren't as keen on doing them, so you make them do too many - things or take too much damage and they say screw you and peace out.
February 5, 2015 2:41 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #25
Interesting...
I wonder how they feel about Treasure Cruise...
February 5, 2015 2:48 a.m.
Cruise needed to go. Decks splashed just to play 4 copies. I think Dig would have been ok to stay, though. At best it's double the cost of Cruise and you get 1 card less. I know you get a wider range to Dig from but it's still less card advantage in the end for double the cost and the decks that were just splashing for it may not be able to pull it off consistently with enough with the UU cost.
It's almost like WotC said "How can we ruin the most days this ban season? Oh, I, know! Let's ruin 2 archetypes!"
February 5, 2015 7:55 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #28
PinkyWinkyBlinky, it is a fun deck Zeus Farts
If something deserves to be on the restricted list in vintage, that is a little hint that it should be banned in modern. Just give Sol Ring a standard reprint. No big deal. Wizards prints that card all the time.
February 5, 2015 3:04 p.m.
selesvyaloverer8 says... #29
the reason that dig is legal in legacy but not legal in modern is because 1) its harder to splash and 2) the extra u is so much more relevant in legacy than in modern.
February 5, 2015 6:21 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #30
@ Didgeridooda and selesvyaloverer8
Wizards banned Dig Through Time under the pretense that it would simply replace Treasure Cruise in Modern. I cannot speak for anything other than Modern, so I won't bother covering Legacy or Vintage.
Now, here's the problem with the logic Wizards has presented us with. There is simply not enough data to warrant that sort of banning. The ban happened upon the basis of an assumption. And assumption, I might add, is probably wrong. 
means a lot more for decks like Delver than many people realize. It would have been better for Wizards to wait and see if Dig Through Time had any significant impact with the removal of Treasure Cruise.
February 5, 2015 8:05 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #31
CanadianShinobi I was just talking cruise. I don't think Dig is on the restricted list.
February 5, 2015 8:39 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #32
@ Didgeridooda Modern doesn't have a restricted list... Why would we be talking about anything but Modern, in the Modern forum?
February 6, 2015 12:07 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky says... #33
Because the reason WotC gave for banning dig in modern is one that would apply globally, and apparently it doesn't. It's relevant to the argument.
And I'm sorry to anyone who lost value when pod got hit, but come on, that was slightly more fun to watch/play against than Eggs.
February 6, 2015 12:20 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #34
PinkyWinkyBlinky The difference between Pod and Eggs is that Pod is a real deck.
Pod has interaction, and requires a LOT of skill. Eggs does not. The reason Pod was winning as much as it was it because the pilots had been playing with the deck for years, and understood it really well. Anyone can pick up Eggs.
I enjoyed playing against Pod, because it was a challenge. Eggs offers no challenge, just a waiting game. A long waiting game. Pod is beatable in a reasonable amount of time, and your sideboard offers ways to deal with it quite well. With Eggs, you mulligan to Stony Silence. The length of the game against Eggs just went from 30m to 0m.
Pod had a few variations, and was resilient because of toolbox nature. Eggs was 1 stupid list that everyone played. Pod was fun to watch, except mirrors, because you got to see how the opponent handled the situation. Eggs had no interaction. Boring.
In short Pod > Eggs, on every level
February 6, 2015 12:54 a.m.
PinkyWinkyBlinky you should take a look at the Legacy meta and then say that a ban in Modern has to make sense in all formats. Legacy and Vintage are entirely different beasts from Modern. Dig is a good card, don't get me wrong, but it was far more impacting in Modern than any other eternal format because of a few reasons.
The games in modern go longer than they do in legacy, which makes the and the 
for delve a LOT easier and more palatable than it does in legacy, and that means that combo decks like Twin and Scapeshift get just a little too easy to combo off with when the deck only needs 1-2 cards to combo off. My opinion, thats probably the more feasible reason that Dig got the hammer for. Really though if you want to know how much legacy actually wants Dig take a look at the last SCG legacy open, spoiler there was 2 copies in the entire top 8.
February 6, 2015 1:40 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #36
CanadianShinobi read what I put again.
Restricted list is vintage, treasture cruise is on it.
If a card is on that list, then it is not too far of a jump to say it is OP in modern.
February 6, 2015 9:09 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #37
Didgeridooda No,I know what you were talking about. But it makes no sense in the context that I know jack all about Vintage, and that the topic at hand is the Modern format.
PinkyWinkyBlinky: Because the reason WotC gave for banning dig in modern is one that would apply globally, and apparently it doesn't. It's relevant to the argument.
How is that remotely relevant? As iLikeDirt pointed out Legacy and Vintage are vastly different and bans may or may not happen from one card to the next. Now, I utterly disagree that Dig Through Time is ban worthy, but that's just my opinion. As I have said before, I feel that Dig was banned upon a false premise. An assumption that has no evidence to support it because Wizards does not test cards for any other format except for Standard.
Now, can we please move away from discussing other formats, because frankly they are irrelevant.
February 6, 2015 11:09 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #38
CanadianShinobi vintage is the strongest most broken cards in the game. The cards that are at the top of the broken level are restricted. Some are banned but those are mostly anti type cards.
Modern is a much different animal. It is not broken, takes multiple turns, and has a ban list.
Yes this is the modern forum. I am just saying that if a card is so broken that it has to be restricted in the most broken format. Of course it should be banned in modern.
February 6, 2015 1:18 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #39
No that is utterly irrelevant! Vintage has no bearing upon the interactions in Modern. Dig in Modern is not broken. It was banned under a false assumption. And it was banned because Wizard, despite their claims to want to open Modern up for more players, does not test cards for Modern. Which is not only baffling but irresponsible.
February 6, 2015 1:53 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #41
Just want to point out before you say anything that this is a troll thread, that talks about a card that does not exist (treasure dig), and a legacy card.
kmcree says... #2
Um... what? Why would they reprint something that makes delve that much stronger, and then unban a broken delve card? Treasure Cruise is never coming back. Ever. Dig Through Time has a chance, but it won't be for a couple years at least.
February 4, 2015 11:48 p.m.