Unbanning
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 8, 2014, 6:35 p.m. by EvenDryke
If you could remove any five cards from the current ban list what would they be?
I would remove Ancestral Vision , Bitterblossom , Golgari Grave-Troll , Mental Misstep , and Wild Nacatl .
I think the current meta could handle them. And as a control player, I like to open up possibilities for more control decks.
ExpectDragons says... #2
Any talk on when banning/unbanning's will happen this year? The last ban was as in May and the last unbanning in september 2012 so it's been pretty inactive
January 20, 2014 10:33 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
Ah. I'm sorry; I misinterpreted what you meant, cestdesconneries.
January 20, 2014 10:35 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
@PooPlayer: I believe ban list changes (if there are any) will be announced when BNG is released.
Infrequent ban list changes are the sign of a healthy, diverse format.
January 20, 2014 10:36 p.m.
@Epochalyptik: I'm not really a fan of unbanning Sensei's Divining Top because of how powerful it makes library manipulation, not necessarily because it slows down games. We'd pretty much see nothing but Scapeshift and Delver variants take over Modern.
As for unbanning Second Sunrise , I think it would limit the number of Tron and Splinter Twin decks in the format, increasing format diversity. Tron has problems against fast, consistent combo decks. Part of the reason R/G Tron has been doing so well is because Second Sunrise and Seething Song were both banned. Those are two key cards in Tron's worst matchups. Splinter Twin would certainly still exist, but it would be the Combo/Control deck of the format, rather than the go-to combo deck.
Using GP San Diego as an example (one of the last major events before Eggs got nerfed), the top 8 was:
1st: Eggs2nd: American Control3rd/4th: Ajani Jund3rd/4th: Scapeshift 5th/8th: Naya Midrange5th/8th: Affinity5th/8th: Junk Midrange5th/8th: Tribal Zoo
The last major Modern event was GP Prague. The top 8 was:
1st: American Flash2nd: Splinter Twin 3rd/4th: Jund3rd/4th: U/R Delver5th/8th: Jund5th/8th: G/R Tron5th/8th: Ajani Jund5th/8th: Junk
So, out of the top 8, four of those decks were G/B/x Midrange or Control, with three of the other four being blue decks with Lightning Bolt . The format has been like this for months since Second Sunrise and Seething Song got banned. The fast combo decks of the format aren't there to keep the others in check. The format is pretty much Pod, Jund, Affinity, Splinter Twin , and Tron at the moment. Brisbane and Antwerp had similar results.
While five tier one decks is a lot (and still signs of a healthy format), we had almost eight prior to the combo banhammers. This includes the aforementioned five, along with Scapeshift , Eggs, then a whole host of decks to prey on the meta (like Living End , Zoo, and Death&Taxes).
A lot of this is because of how well the current tier one decks are positioned in a format lacking glass cannon combo decks.
January 21, 2014 4:04 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #6
It would be nice to see some more control decks in the format, though.
Didn't Top originally get banned because games went too long?
January 21, 2014 4:10 a.m.
ExpectDragons says... #7
"nice to see more control decks" - this aggro player hopes not lol
January 21, 2014 4:17 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #8
I'm a ramp/aggro player too lol. I like a diversity of opponents...
January 21, 2014 4:21 a.m.
Food for thought: if Sensei's Divining Top were unbanned, would Counterbalance decks make their way into Modern even thought we don't have Brainstorm ?
I know I'd try it even if it wouldn't work.
January 21, 2014 1:42 p.m.
@EvenDryke: Well that's the thing. If they unbanned Sensei's Divining Top , they'd have to ban Counterbalance . That combo did a number on Standard when it was legal. Even though we don't have Brainstorm , Telling Time would certainly be a viable option.
January 22, 2014 2:42 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
Possibly, there's Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand . Miracles may make an appearance in Modern as well.
January 22, 2014 2:42 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #12
I would try miracles if Sensei's Divining Top was unbanned.
January 22, 2014 7:27 a.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #13
I'm debating experimenting with miracles just because I've never heard of Telling Time , haha.
I mean, it's instant speed, and it can, at the very least, filter our a bad draw. Plus if you wait until the end of their turn to cast it, you still have the chance to Mana Leak something... I like this card , haha
January 22, 2014 7:43 a.m.
The thing about Miracles is you need a good way to get them from your hand back on top of your library if you happen to draw them at the wrong time. This is where Brainstorm and Jace, the Mind Sculptor come in, which we don't have in Modern.
January 22, 2014 3:42 p.m.
You can, but that doesn't set you up to Entreat the Angels or Terminus on the turn of your choice.
January 22, 2014 4:13 p.m.
Ancestral Vision being cascaded into is still a long shot. At best, a cascade deck would cascade into it on turn 4, assuming the normal Balance -esque list. This would make it come out only one turn faster, and also that cascade deck would have trouble using it.
January 22, 2014 11:13 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
Bitterblossom should be unbanned. It's no worst than Lingering Souls
I don't know y it was banned, but besides Bad Moon and things like Bone Splinters and Smallpox I can't see too much tremendously benefiting from Bitterblossom
January 24, 2014 1:27 a.m.
ExpectDragons says... #19
Could be to do with it being undercosted for the format, an exploitation of Bitterblossom with a turn one Soul Warden springs to mind as an example. back that up with bob and other low cost token spells and you've got plenty of room left for control making for a strong balanced deck that can negate the drawbacks many it's cards impose. If it were legal i think it could potentially warp metas as the potential of the card is very diverse, perhaps too diverse.
January 24, 2014 1:53 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #20
Looking up online says that Bitterblossom was banned mostly because people didn't like to play against it. I own 2 copies of the card in hopes of 1 day it becomes unbanned. It's not as powerful today as it was back then.
January 24, 2014 2:20 a.m.
Bitterblossom dominated Extended until Cawblade took over because it gives decks chump blockers for days. It's basically a two mana Moat , but stop everything but Trample, instead of Flying. It's even better in Modern where we have the full set of swords (Sword of Fire and Ice et. al.).
Not every black deck in Modern wants to run Liliana of the Veil , Dark Confidant , Thoughtseize , or Deathrite Shaman . Almost every black deck in Modern wants Bitterblossom . The card is a brick wall against Aggro, while providing a lot of utility against Control and Midrange.
January 24, 2014 4:36 a.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #22
I think giving Aggro more answers would be pretty cool, and make unbanning Bitterblossom seem worthy. I mean heck, Junk Zoo mains Maelstrom Pulse AND Abrupt Decay , a Bitterblossom wouldn't last very long against a semi-experienced player. Maybe they don't even need more answers...
Reprinting Vindicate would be cool though :3
January 24, 2014 7:57 a.m.
ExpectDragons says... #23
Wild Nacatl & Bitterblossom unbanned! Deathrite Shaman banned! So i predicted Nacatl right but got bitterblossom wrong, think it's a mistake to unban bitterblossom but spot on with the necatl. Been moving away from playing Naya for a while but i'm excited to play it again!
Good job i noticed a friend post about it as i was supposed to take a train to meet someone to trade for deathrites tomorrow lol no chance that's happening now!
February 3, 2014 5:53 a.m.
I got 2/5 that I wanted, so I'm pretty happy. I would have been thrilled to see even one. I still think Golgari Grave-Troll and Ancestral Vision could come off, but hey what do I know.
I was totally psyched to start building Modern Fae until I saw the price of Bitterblossom . Check it out if you don't know.
February 3, 2014 5:58 a.m.
ExpectDragons says... #25
yeah i'm aware, if they have any sense they'd reprint it asap perhaps in one of the modern event products. It's price will rise further while everyone tries to get their hands on them.
February 3, 2014 6:01 a.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #26
I don't even care about the price right now, I'm so happy Bitterblossom got unbanned!!! Plus I know it'll drop
BUG Faeries it's brawl even 5am where I am, and I already have a build in mind.
February 3, 2014 6:01 a.m.
So at the time of this post, Bitterblossom has shot up to 87.49 on tcgplayer.com mid. How's that for accessability?
February 3, 2014 9:44 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #28
Freaking Wizards and their banning of Deathrite Shaman !!!!
At least we have Wild Nacatl ... Zoo may be worthwhile playing now.
February 5, 2014 3:11 a.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #29
Bitterblossom dropped about $20 in the first 24 hours of its unbanning, and just rose to $72 again. It'll drop more, and there's talk of reprints.
Zoo is a lot better of a choice now that Deathrite Shaman is banned, it's actually a viable deck again.
Jay says... #1
I believe he meant it also stops GSZ
January 20, 2014 10:27 p.m.