Vexing Devil in Modern
Modern forum
Posted on April 4, 2015, 2:01 a.m. by KB2187
Does it still have it's place in Burn? I already have 4 Goblin Guides and 4 Monastery Swiftspears in my Naya Burn - Modern. So I'm wondering if it's time to try to move them? Thoughts?
Anything that gives your opponent a choice typically isn't something you want.
April 4, 2015 2:16 a.m.
To problem with Vexing Devil is not exactly it's choice, it's more that your opponent has the option to pick, not you. If they have removal, it sticks. If they don't, it dies. Goblin Guide and T. Swift avoid most removal generally because Eidolon of the Great Revel presents such an amazing threat that removal needs to be saved for him, allowing them to sneak through for 1-2 at a time. Vexing Devil doesn't have that luxury at 4/3. Burn also likes a less creature heavy spell package because responding to tricks is important.
Vexing Devil has a home in naya zoo, but I think that's about it.
April 4, 2015 2:55 a.m.
GoofyFoot I agree with you about Vexing Devil in burn but could you dive into why you think it has a place in Naya Zoo?
April 4, 2015 3:15 a.m.
I would say as no more than a two of, but iT gives about as much presence in zoo as Wild Nacatl Does, plus zoo is basically just creature heavy burn nowadays, seeing as both decks run eidolon.
April 4, 2015 3:21 a.m.
If this is regarding whether you should trade them away or not, I vote trade. You can usually trade up playsets, and some other ahem scrub will pick them up to try and test them. I love trading for them, as they are great casual value :)
I wasn't referring to you as a scrub there, btw. Just the people who trade for them at their current value with serious intentions are.
April 4, 2015 3:26 a.m.
I strongly disagree with Vexing Devil being a bad card. Yes, it does give the opponent a choice, which seems bad. But it really isn't.
It comes down to, if the opponent has a removal spell or not. If the opponent has a removal spell, it sticks and then die. The same can be said about Goblin Guide. If the opponent has a removal spell, it dies too, but that doesn't make GG a bad card.
I have tested it for a long time now. 95% of the time, the opponent choose to take 4. The last 5%, the opponent kills it, which just makes my Eidolon of the Great Revel stick.
Even if the opponent has a removal spell, they usually take 4. They want to use the removal on GG or Eidolon, which can potentially be a much worse treat.
April 4, 2015 4:51 a.m.
Yeh but the difference is GG has to be answered and VD doesn't. You can choose to just ignore it. Burn and RDW has problems with card draw anyway so it's not great to run a card that stands some chance of doing literally nothing.
I feel VD does have some place in creature heavy red decks. The kind of deck where he won't end up being the only thing on the board. The reason for this is that you want to stretch the opponents removal spells which is easy to accomplish if you're playing 15 creatures but hard if you're playing 4. It's the same principle as why control doesn't add any creatures besides snappy and a wincon. You don't want to give the opponent an easy target for their removal - you want it to be wasted. You either go all in and make their decision making process very difficult or you don't give them the chance to use it at all.
April 4, 2015 5:49 a.m.
NorthernRaven I think Vexing Devil is a fine card but I don't think it's necessarily better than any of the other creature cards played in burn. That's why I personally don't play it anymore. Everytime I played one I found myself wishing I had one of my other dudes.
April 4, 2015 6:08 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
After testing Devil extensively in Modern RDW, I've found he's amazing. I'm running 19 creatures, including Eidolon, Guide, Lavamancer, and Ball Lightning. Most of the time, Devil is 4 damage for 
, if not he's removed, which means one of my other critters sticks. The small chance he sticks and isn't removed, he's a 4/3 beat stick and closes games quickly.
I find him to be a win/win in my build. I do agree that in a build with fewer creatures, say 8-12, there may be better options.
April 4, 2015 7:53 a.m.
Letting opponent choose is bad, but with VD both choices are good value.
April 4, 2015 9:23 a.m.
Dash Hopes has good value for both options, but it sucks. I got a playset of Devils when it was spoiled and ran it for a whIle in modern mono Red burn. Since them it's lost its place in modern decks. I had no trouble flipping the playset to a kid who was building RDW. It's an extremely overpriced card at the moment. It will fall in time. Trade now.
April 4, 2015 10:15 a.m.
vishnarg Dash Hopes has one good and one bad option when you cast it. When you cast Vexing Devil you should be fine with whatever your opponent chooses. Worst case: he sticks and gets removed.
Its either a 4/3 for 1 mana or 4dmg for 1 mana. Both are good turn 1. Dash Hopes is bad because when you need to counter something your opponent can just go on with his combo if he has 6 or more life.
April 4, 2015 10:29 a.m.
I'd trade it away if only for the reason that it is not that powerful right now. There are better options for your turn one play in either RDW or burn. (i.e, GG or Lavamancer), but he is still good in Zoo or other not-mono-red aggro decks.
April 4, 2015 10:37 a.m.
Burn run around 12-14 creatures. With Vexing, that is 16-18 creatures, which is a pretty high amount. He is not the only creature on the board
And ChiefBell, how can a 4/3 turn one just be ignored?
Also, GG is a better card. Swiftspear and Eidolon are better. But..... Is Boros Charm, Shard Volley or even Lava Spike a better card?
April 4, 2015 1:29 p.m.
The 4/3 can be chump blocked, and will if they so please. And yes Boros Charm Shard Volley and Lava Spike are all cards I would rather run in a Burn deck.
April 4, 2015 2:22 p.m.
Chump blocked by what creatures? There isn't really a deck in modern, which is able to chump block. Even affinity wouldn't chump block.
I'm really questioning whether Boros is better than Vexing. Dealing 4 dmg for 2 mana, or 4 dmg 90-95% of the time for 1 mana.........
I just think Vexing is better than many of the cards in burn.
April 4, 2015 2:45 p.m.
Abzan? Which is among the top decks in the format. Scavenging Ooze will happily chump it. So will Noble Hierarch. Hell, Tarmogoyf will trade with it fairly easily. Then the Abzan player gets to T3 / T4 and starts playing a ton of life gain and it's GG. That's kind of what Abzan does - chump blocks until it stabilises.
April 4, 2015 2:52 p.m.
I'm sorry xzzane, but token decks aren't really played that much right now.
So, let's say you play Vexing T1. Opponent plays a Tarmogoyf. It's probably a 1/2 (land in graveyard) or MAYBE even a 2/3, if they used a spell T1 (but then they would need to shock themself). You attack with your Vexing. Would you really chump block with your Goyf?
Having a 4/3 turn one is just good, almost no matter what. And even against the 14% abzan decks, which is its worst match-up, it's still not bad.
And in the 10% where the opponent have an answer for it, all there is to do is to side it out.
April 4, 2015 5:10 p.m.
Yes I would chump block. Absolutely. Because I'm playing against RDW and I win the game by chump blocking.
April 4, 2015 5:12 p.m.
It's not a bad card though. It's just best if you follow it up with another creature after you've forced the opponent to chump block or whatever. Then they're really screwed.
April 4, 2015 5:13 p.m.
Okay, here's the difference:
Turns 1/2:
Vexing Devil - Perfect
Lava Spike, Goblin Guide, Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt, etc - Good
Turns 3+:
Vexing Devil - Mediocre
Lava Spike, Goblin Guide, Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt, etc - Good
April 6, 2015 9:52 p.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #27
The point of burn is to be able to deal direct damage to your opponent without having to worry about removal. VD totally defeats that purpose. Burn also probably relies on top decks more than any other deck in modern and VD makes top decks soooo much worse because if you don't play it turn 1-2 it's basically a dead card.
I would so much rather have Boros charm or lava spike than devil.
April 6, 2015 10:53 p.m.
devotiontoblue says... #29
Vexing Devil is just too ineffective to be competitive in Modern. Young Pyromancer and Wild Nacatl are much better options in Naya.
vishnarg says... #2
No, not really. I'm surprised its still worth so much. It's just not very good anymore.
April 4, 2015 2:06 a.m.