Whaaaaat?!
Modern forum
Posted on April 22, 2013, 12:09 a.m. by Wabbbit
They banned Second Sunrise . Discuss.
MTG_Player says... #3
Wow, thanks for the update. I can't say i am surprised, it's just disappointing. Every good 'combo' deck: storm, Dragonstorm , now eggs. They are all banned because they are too fast but they are very susceptible to hate so... next thing you know Griselbrand will be banned for all of his combos.
At least Cifka had his fun... :)
April 22, 2013 12:16 a.m.
From the rationale they posted on the MTG site, the banning of Second Sunrise had little to do with Eggs being too fast, and everything to do with the execution of Eggs taking too long.
A single turn can take up to 15 minutes while you cycle through everything, and they were finding it was making rounds run to time, and then way over time causing delays for the entire event. They referenced in large events, Eggs as a deck creating as much as an extra hour of sitting and waiting for everybody not playing Eggs.
April 22, 2013 12:24 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Allow me to explain why this ban happened. It isn't because WotC hates combo decks. WotC actually likes combo decks and recognizes that they are an essential third of the triangle. However, WotC hates decks that aren't conducive to interactive or enjoyable Magic. They're very lenient with their definitions, but decks like Eggs and TurboFog effectively devolve games into "you watch me twiddle my thumbs as you accomplish nothing." Eggs takes preposterously long turns and is very uninteractive while TurboFog just prevents anything from happening until it can durdle into a win.
April 22, 2013 12:44 a.m.
Eggs was a terrible deck to play against (and sometimes even use yourself) because it was monotonous, tedious, time-consuming, and easy to cheat or lose track of numbers with.
April 22, 2013 12:48 a.m.
I'm just laughing over all the people I've seen at FNM who had spent the time to foil out their eggs decks.
April 22, 2013 12:52 a.m.
Well, eggs decks still have Faith's Reward if they want to keep trying to exist.
April 22, 2013 1:27 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
The deck won't be consistent enough without both Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward . It won't exist in any real force unless something else changes.
April 22, 2013 1:29 a.m.
Regrowth was just unrestricted after 19 years in Vintage! :O
April 22, 2013 2:41 a.m.
The loss of second sunrise is painful, but the deck is still playable because other cards exist that make the deck work. Faith's reward was a great addition to eggs, but the deck still existed before that card was printed.
April 22, 2013 4:51 a.m.
Anyone who saw Kibler get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the quarterfinals against an Eggs player in GP San Diego understands why Second Sunrise was banned. The deck was just awful (boring) to play against.
April 22, 2013 7:34 a.m.
As a judge, I'm happy it got banned.
As a player, I'm even happier it got banned. Although, the deck was super easy to hate against.
April 22, 2013 8:34 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
I think that it only takes forever if you don't know what you are doing. I can take a turn with a full combo out in <5 min (from 20 to 0). The people taking forever were either intentionally doing so or ignorant about how it's played. In all of the clips of Cifka playing I could see he was quick and efficient with his plays.
April 22, 2013 9:18 a.m.
alpinefroggy says... #15
They nerf any good combo decks in modern it does get annoying someyimes but this I actually like because it took forever to combo.
April 22, 2013 9:37 a.m.
I did say "if they wanted to try to continue" existing, Epo. I get that this takes half their combo enablers away, just observing that if someone really loved Eggs they could try to continue using just Faith's Reward.
April 22, 2013 10:26 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
You could use Reclaim and Noxious Revival to put on topdeck.
April 22, 2013 11:10 a.m.
Birthing Pod you better cover your shit! You are the next combo on the chopping block!! Really though, I understand why the bans are being made, i think wizards is doing the wrong thing. Instead of nerfing any deck that gets consistent they should just un ban some of the cards that kept combo in check. I.e. Wild Nacatl , Umezawa's Jitte , etc.
April 22, 2013 8:16 p.m.
If Wizards unbans cards that would beat those decks, then those cards would just beat everything. Wild Nacatl was banned because it just beat the shit out of every deck. If they unbanned it, Modern would just be "zoo.dec" all over again.
April 22, 2013 8:19 p.m.
I enjoy all the people thinking that this ban was to stop combo, or even to stop THAT combo for being too strong or fast or whatever.
They explained why they banned it: Eggs was causing HOURS of delay for EVERYBODY that wasn't playing Eggs because of how long the turn takes to masturbate your way to victory. They wanted to ban a card that would stop Eggs from going so long, that wasn't being used in any other deck, so Second Sunrise went.
April 22, 2013 9:12 p.m.
MTG_Player says... #21
It's funny how no one is talking about the egregious un-banning of Staff of Domination in EDH. It is the best combo enabler.
April 22, 2013 9:25 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #22
Eggs only takes forever to play if you are either doing it intentionally or are an idiot and don't know how to play it. A proper combo out should take 5 minutes total and that's if your opponent doesn't just concede.
People were doing it, yes, however I don't think that the banhammer needed to be involved.
Then again, I only invested $30 in the deck as a whole so I could care less if it's modern but this whole "hours of wait time" business is just because of people being stupid. Hell, if that's what it takes to ban a deck we could build turbofog and sit while we durdle ourselves till the 15 min time..
April 22, 2013 9:36 p.m.
Best comment of the night for me right here is by @Devonin "masturbate your way to victory" bwhahahah xD
April 23, 2013 6:06 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #24
Same reason why Sensei's Divining Top was banned; it just takes forever.
April 24, 2013 2:20 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #25
The thing about MtG is that you have a deck, your opponent has a deck, and you play against each other. Eggs was a deck that said, "Hey, I know you wanted to play a game today, but instead you're going to watch me shuffle my deck for ten minutes".
I'm glad it got banned. MtG is an interactive game at heart, and one-man combos that ignore the opponent aren't fun for anybody. I doubt they're even fun for the one comboing out.
April 24, 2013 2:27 a.m.
@KrazyCaley: Sensei's Divining Top was banned because it's ridiculously good. It's still legal in Legacy and Vintage, two formats with more combo decks than Modern could ever dream of.
April 24, 2013 2:28 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #27
Modern isn't supposed to be a combo-out format, though. Wizards themself said as much. They want games to go to at least turn 4 every time at the competitive level.
April 24, 2013 2:50 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
Well, landgrafb, that means that Splinter Twin + Deceiver Exarch won't be touched then :P
I'm curious how wizards will deal with I Wash My Hands Of This Weirdness or Weirdstorm as that deck regularly combos off turn 2-3.
April 24, 2013 3:51 a.m.
@Ohthenoises: It's strong for sure, but Blistercoil Weird dies to Lightning Bolt , Path to Exile , Pyroclasm , Lightning Helix , Abrupt Decay , or any other removal that can be played on turns one and two. Part of the problem with Pyromancer Ascension and other storm decks using Seething Song is they could combo off on turn three without having to worry about disruption. They required some very niche sideboarding to be dealt with, which just resulted in turn three kills when the opponent couldn't draw the removal.
April 24, 2013 4 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #30
Second Sunrise decks die to artifact hate pretty easily which most people have in for affinity matches anyway. Hurkyl's Recall eats eggs alive.
April 24, 2013 6:04 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #31
Edit to previous: but Wizards still banned Second Sunrise . The constant cantripping will take nearly as long if someone wants to do so.
April 24, 2013 6:06 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #32
It's still a deck if they want to swap in faith's reward. It'll just be a turn slower, which gives the opponent time to interact with the game.
And im still not a fan of splinter twin either, but its a turn 4 combo that is easily disruptable if they tap out for it. It still fits within the intended bounds of Modern.
April 24, 2013 10:11 a.m.
They were generally running both Second Sunrise -and- Faith's Reward as I've seen.
April 24, 2013 10:37 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #34
Yeah that sounds about right. This will make their combo a little less consistent now, too. They might even need to protect it.
April 24, 2013 10:49 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
Eggs-Cellent was my slightly tweaked version of Cifka's deck. I don't plan on making it work but you could with Reclaim and Noxious Revival .
That deck is 98% identical to the "normal" eggs deck.
April 24, 2013 10:51 a.m.
pheonix_222 says... #36
talented deck brewers laugh at Wizard's attempt to hold them down,a new deck emerges...
Breakfast at Urza's:
Cloud Key , Krark-Clan Ironworks , Faith's Reward , Open the Vaults , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Grapeshot .
I haven't witnessed it going off yet, but here's hoping that it's faster/not as popular as to not make Wizards look dumb.
April 25, 2013 12:26 p.m.
alpinefroggy says... #37
New combo decks are will be perpetually created and then hated against. Its the cycle.
NoSkillManiac says... #2
They want to stop combo being the dominant archetype.
April 22, 2013 12:14 a.m.