What are some good sideboard cards good against BGx
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 25, 2014, 12:36 a.m. by forestlore44
Doesn't matter what colors or what decks they slot in, what are some good cards to side against BGx?
JexInfinite says... #3
Blood Moon is the obvious answer as a general sideboard card, but more specific ones will help you more. Sideboard against what is a threat, so if Lightning Bolt isn't an issue, but Lingering Souls is, sideboard against Abzan, rather than Jund. The playstyle of the decks is slightly different with prioritizing plays, too.
November 25, 2014 1:19 a.m.
The BGx decks are all about efficient one-for-one trades, so anything that goes over the top of that tends of foul up their gameplan pretty bad. Stuff like Keranos, God of Storms, Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, and other threats that are hard for the deck to deal with permanently or with a single card.
November 25, 2014 2:04 a.m.
Graveyard hate (Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, etc.) deals with B/G/x's main win conditions, Tarmogoyf, Lingering Souls, and Scavenging Ooze. You still have to deal with manlands and planeswalkers.
Land destruction or disruption works good. Cards like Tectonic Edge, Blood Moon, and Molten Rain.
One of the best tools, however, is giving yourself hexproof with Leyline of Sanctity or Witchbane Orb. Now they can't target you with Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Liliana of the Veil, or Lightning Bolt.
Flame Slash deals with a plethora of things, especially the odd Olivia Voldaren.
November 25, 2014 5:33 a.m.
The problem with battling BG/x is that many answers address some cards, but not the overall plan.
Graveyard exile hoses goyf, does a lot to scooze but doesn't answer it completely, and a little to lingering souls, but nothing to everything else. Including graveyard exile to essentially deal with one card is pointless when a BG player is happy to beat you to death with a 2/2 anyway.
Hexproof protects you from some discard, and liliana's minus, but that's about it. It won't stop you actually dying to creatures, and it won't stop them removing your threats.
If you want include both of those sorts of things then you're looking at swapping 6-8 cards just for answers that only do specific things. Which is problematic.
- Land destruction and denial can do a lot, but equally you need to consider that they're running 10 fetchlands and usually around 4 basics so it is possible for them to survive. As a rock player myself I'd be happy to stay on BBG in terms of lands for a large part of a game. Remember also that Blood Moon is a 3-drop that dies to a 2-drop spell: Abrupt Decay. It's not ideal.
Essentially you need to realise that BG/x is a creature based deck, and therefore relies on creatures to win. The most effective way to battle the deck is therefore with a) removal or b) with regenerating or value creatures. Wurmcoil Engine is a big pain for BG/x. Thrun, the Last Troll is irritating. Anything indestructible is annoying.
There's no way to sideboard against BG/x in a succinct and focused way. Graveyard exile misses most of the deck. So does giving yourself hexproof. You also need to remember that if you don't get a leyline in your opening hand it's useless. They're a big case of 'best case scenario' thinking. Land destruction is irritating but not crippling. A BG/x deck can function on 3, and is optimal at around 4 lands. The best thing to do is just to stop their creatures swinging for you with things that are hard to remove.
You really need to think about which deck youre playing. If you're playing aggro then their cheap creatures are the threat. If you're playing burn then it's thoughtseize. If you're playing control then you need to be aware of their manlands and goyf. All of these decks can battle BG/x by dismantling a different part of the strategy.
November 25, 2014 6:36 a.m.
Well, if you can protect your creatures from removal, it can seriously hurt B/G.
Wurmcoil Engine, Thrun, the Last Troll, and Asceticism have given me the best results, but its up to you.
November 25, 2014 9:16 a.m.
Those decks tend to rely on cards like Kitchen Finks and Courser of Kruphix to stem some of the bleeding from all the damage they deal to themselves with bobs and their manabase, so naturally a Skullcrack is helpful. Also your personal choice of grave hate.
November 25, 2014 9:18 a.m.
Soji - neither of those two cards are commonly seen in BG/x. Courser was in fashion for a while but isn't anymore. The 2 lifegain cards you'll commonly see are Scavenging Ooze, and Obstinate Baloth (sideboard). Some BG/x decks play a single Courser of Kruphix or maybe 2 but this is by no means a standard choice. Some run Batterskull in the sideboard too.
Abzan decks also seem to be turning towards Siege Rhino in the mainboard, but that's specific to BGW obviously.
The problem with approaching this from an aggro perspective is that BG/x can easily, easily counter aggro with the removal of Dark Confidant and the inclusion of any green lifegain cards. You have to remember that a lot of people are running Dragon's Claw sideboard too.
November 25, 2014 9:27 a.m.
.You say that neither of those cards are commonly seen in Rock decks, but in my meta those are staples for multiple players,as the opposite could be said with Dragon Claw, that card has never seen the light of day in my Card Shop bar some M10 drafts from years ago. Obstinate Baloth pretty much does the same as finks minus the fact they have to get rid of it twice which is more relevant in every match minus the mirror if you're really afraid of Liliana. As for siding out bobs to stop aggro from being as effective, you can't really side out lands now can you? More often than not lands do more damage than anything. Guess that's what comes with a format like modern were everything has to hurt you to play anything in multiple colors.
Point being is Rock hurts itself a lot and even cards to gain them life can still be too slow or do too little to matter.
November 25, 2014 12:03 p.m.
I wasn't really discussing your local meta, I was discussing the modern meta in general. It's worth noting that Dragon's Claw is one of the most sideboarded cards in modern at the moment, full stop. I don't really care about your modern meta, I can only speak for what the majority of people do.
Obstinate Baloth is a larger threat to aggro because: its 4 toughness makes it harder to remove compared to Kitchen Finks' 2, it can't be bolted, and it gains all the life in one solid chunk which is important. If you play a finks then a red player can just bolt you and not care because you only get the second lot of life when it dies - it gives the red player the opportunity to not allow you to gain the life. The same is not true of the baloth. The better stats and the solid chunk of life gain gives it the edge.
Lands in a rock deck aren't a problem, the big problem is Shocking yourself every single turn when you draw a card. Lands give you the choice, Dark Confidant doesn't. If you know (as a BG/x player) that you're playing aggro then from T3 onwards you can avoid playing shocks untapped, you can fetch for basics and you can prioritise filter lands. However, if you have a DC you're FORCED to take that damage because there's no 'if' clause in his wording. He's a far better choice to side out.
I've been playing rock for maybe a year now.... maybe more. I forget. Your first port of call against aggressive decks is stabilising the early game. You take out dark confidant and you swap in something that gives you life in a solid chunk like the baloth. And actually, yes you can remove a land or two as a rock player if you know that the game will be won or lost by T3/T4.
Probably one of the reasons why it's so hard to board against BG/x is due to the fact that BG/x has really good options when boarding against others.
November 25, 2014 12:39 p.m.
The decks that are sideboarding Dragon's Claw are Delver and Burn, and they're for mirrors. I don't think I've ever seen B/G/x play Dragon's Claw, so maybe I'm just reading this wrong. I'm confused as to why it's come up. Regardless, it's always a four-of in two of the most popular decks at the moment.
Courser of Kruphix is most commonly played in Jund. MtG Top 8 has it listed in 38 Jund decks at competitive and higher. Regular B/G Rock doesn't need them because it has a more consistent mana base to support four copies of Scavenging Ooze, multiple Maelstrom Pulse, etc. Junk's 3-drops are occupied by Lingering Souls and the odd Kitchen Finks (which can be cast off Godless Shrine).
I don't think Skullcrack is a definite sideboard card against Rock, but Soji makes a good point. Courser of Kruphix and Kitchen Finks do see play. Courser of Kruphix provides additional card advantage, as well as lifegain. Having a way to deal with a 4 butt can be crucial because it also means you can deal with early Tarmogoyfs. Not to mention, Obstinate Baloth in games two and three. Flame Slash, Path to Exile, Dismember, etc. all do wonders here.
Against Lingering Souls, normally you'd just Electrolyze/Forked Bolt the tokens. That's not really an option against Kitchen Finks, which is why it sees play in the Junk lists. It's a much better card in the Delver match.
When I was playing Rock, Obstinate Baloth is still the go-to card. It's a clock and lifegain and you can occasionally cast it for free.
November 25, 2014 6:40 p.m.
Uhhh yeh it is listed (courser) but not usually as a 4-of. It's also only listed as roughly a 2-of in about half of the june decks I've seen. This is an average of one copy per deck.
I mean it's not like a big, big source of life gain for the deck, as compared to 4 copies of Scavenging Ooze are etc. It's also not as significant as Obstinate Baloth which is unconditional.
I'm seriously considering Dragon's Claw or Sanctimony in the sideboard of my Junk deck. Thinking about it. I'd prefer a 2-drop constant source of life gain over a 4-drop. Although both are more specific than Baloth, as the Baloth can help in a greater number of situations.
November 25, 2014 7:04 p.m.
do not think it was mentioned but Mirran Crusader can do work in that matchup.
November 25, 2014 7:08 p.m.
Oh yeh Mirran Crusader literally reads 'Win against BG/x'
November 25, 2014 7:09 p.m.
I'd say Timely Reinforcements would be a better option than Sanctimony personally.
November 25, 2014 8:47 p.m.
really anything that counter attrition strategies. forked bolt, lingering souls, electrolyze, mirran crusader, kitchen finks. etc.
or things with hexproof or pro black since it tends to lack non targeted. sword of light and shadow is a beast too.
November 25, 2014 9:39 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #18
ChiefBell I'd recommend it in sideboards if B/G/x was an issue. Currently, it's not that popular of an archetype, and Abzan definitely seems to be doing better than Jund, but neither are beating powerhouses like Scapeshift. Siding against Scapeshift seems to be the better plan, but if you have a very attrition based meta, you could always beat them by joining them.
November 26, 2014 1:13 a.m.
A totally underplayed Ravinica card: Illness in the ranks. This DEVASTATES Abzan and anything with Lingering Souls. I play it in my Modern deck, and in the third game against Lingering Souls, they were GONE.
xlaleclx says... #2
it sort of DOES matter what deck. BGx is a good stuff deck so there aren't really big hoser cards to beat the deck
November 25, 2014 1:17 a.m.