what cards do you think should be banned
Modern forum
Posted on May 6, 2014, 10:11 p.m. by Fistfulvengence
what cards do you think should be banned
absolutely nothing. they just recently updated the ban list a couple months ago in February. Anything in the current meta that wizards felt needed to be banned was put on that list, so if it wasn't on that list then it doesn't need to be banned.
May 6, 2014 10:32 p.m.
guys, guys, guys,... You're all forgetting the most OP part of Swamp and Island . The SIDEBOARD!
15x basic land sideboards FTW.
May 6, 2014 10:37 p.m.
Nothing needs banning. Nothing. If anything, they should be taking cards off the banlist, like Golgari Grave-Troll for one. The last thing Modern needs right now is more bans.
May 6, 2014 10:40 p.m.
Id actually love to see the Golgari Grave-Troll unbanning. Id play that card in aggro loam all day :D
May 6, 2014 10:59 p.m.
BorosPlayer says... #10
I think the cantrips (Ponder and Preordain ) could be unbanned. They don't seem to be potentially format warping in any way, but I don't know that much.
May 6, 2014 11:03 p.m.
I agree that if anything should happened more cards should be unbanned. Modern as a whole is very diverse (even if the top 8 doesn't look like it). I would love to see Preordain, Ponder, Mental Mistep and Golgari Grave Troll get unbanned. I'd also love to see Shaman back in play. It's sad that it was banned, it only forced Jund and Rock players to evolve and they are still very strong decks. I'd say a few unbannings would liven things up and bring a healthy competition to Pod and Twin players.
May 6, 2014 11:18 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #12
Mental Misstep should never be unbanned... It's also banned in Legacy, for good reason.
On that note, Storm Crow should be banned.
May 6, 2014 11:27 p.m.
durzostarfire says... #13
If it hasn't already Door to Nothingness should be banned
May 6, 2014 11:40 p.m.
Mental Misstep was a horrible mistake and should have never happened. There isn't a point to unbanning it. EVERY deck would be playing a playset.
May 6, 2014 11:46 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #15
If you think the cantrips like Ponder and Preordain should be unbanned you have no idea what you're talking about. Storm would just win every event.
May 7, 2014 1:26 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #16
Cranial Plating and Disciple of the Vault . Upon banning those cards I would reintroduce the artifact lands. Gives more potential to artifact decks aside from Affinity.
May 7, 2014 4:49 a.m.
There are currently no cards that warp the format so much that it would justify another banning. The only one that even approached that was Deathrite Shaman and that has been dealt with.
A thread like this pops up about once a month and I always want to look just to see what people's opinions are and it usually turns into "nothing, but they should unban X card because...."
The ban list is there to keep the meta healthy. Cards that mess with that get banned. It's a very straightforward logic and WotC (in my opinion) does a pretty good job of keeping it balanced so that deck archetypes are playable without being oppressive to the meta.
The only card ban I can think of that wasn't banned for the above stated reason was Second Sunrise because so many people tried to build and pilot it but did so poorly (not that they are bad players, just didn't prep properly) and it led to 15 minute turns with nothing happening (like winning).
May 7, 2014 8:18 a.m.
Ponder
and Preordain
are stupid powerful, especially for storm.
Golgari Grave-Troll
could deff be coming off soon, and seems prime with the removal of the biggest graveyard hater DRS
May 8, 2014 10:08 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #19
Maybe Bloodbraid Elf . Jund isn't looking too good now and the elf might be able to help it make a comeback while also helping other decks.
May 8, 2014 10:29 p.m.
I really like Bloodbraid Elf , but unbanning it would mean you'd have to re-ban Wild Nacatl and possibly hurt jund as well. I personally don't like un-interactive combo-decks such as storm, so i think they should ban Grapeshot , and then they could bring back Seething Song , as it's a strong ritual that's only banned because of a dumb deck. Sure, storm can play Empty the Warrens , but Grapeshot is the card that i believe leads to some of the least interactive games.
May 9, 2014 3:56 a.m.
SkyRaider42 says... #21
I don't think you understand how that would affect the meta, KingSorin. Storm has already had 4 bans in the form of Rite of Flame , Seething Song , Ponder , and Preordain . If WOTC hated storm that much, they would've banned grapeshot outright. Also, storm is the most fragile glass cannon I have ever played or played against. A simple Rule of Law of Ethersworn Canonist can be GG for storm. Also, banning Grapeshot but unbanning Seething Song is pointless because storm would become unplayable
May 9, 2014 5:22 p.m.
At least Empty the Warrens doesn't win you the game outright. Putting 40 goblins into play will almost always work, but there are ways around it. I'm just trying to make the deck more interactive, by taking away their win con of 20 to face. Also: both the cards you mentioned were in white, and having to devote sideboard space to counter a single deck is not a good idea in my view. I understand that 4 cards are already banned, but I reckon they could probably unban about three of those if they put Grapeshot on the ban list, and forced people to use alternative storm spells.
May 9, 2014 5:30 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #23
Ban Sip of Hemlock too stronk makes childred in draft cry
May 12, 2014 11:03 p.m.
chalice doesn't work on storm, unless you're suggesting charging it for X=1
May 13, 2014 7:05 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #26
That or turn 3 x-2 assuming you side in after losing first game
May 13, 2014 10:19 a.m.
x-2 does nothing, as storm triggers on casting, not resolution, and the copies aren't cast. It'll counter the original grapeshot, but you'll still take damage from all of the copies.
May 14, 2014 2:33 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #28
i'm not entirely sure on how but i was told on this site that chalice heavily dampens storm
May 14, 2014 4:15 a.m.
@tyforthevenom: Chalice of the Void on one or two really hurts storm because it stops Pyretic Ritual , Manamorphose , Serum Visions , etc. etc. which is what's used to get the ball rolling. It's not the actual Grapeshot you should be worried about.
May 14, 2014 6:03 a.m.
i guess, but i still think it should have its main combo-piece banned, as it's literally the only win-con used by any storm deck, and makes it far too easy to win with a storm going off. By making the deck more consistent, but also opening up options such as Ponder to other decks in the format, but weakening the win con, it'll not only balance storm, but also remove 4 or 5 cards from the ban list.
May 14, 2014 6:09 a.m.
@KingSorin: Just no. Storm struggles to combo off through countermagic and stopping them from going off. Any mainboard graveyard hate, like Relic of Progenitus or Scavenging Ooze , really messes up Storm's gameplan of going off with Past in Flames .
Banning Grapeshot so we can unban Ponder and Preordain just means Splinter Twin becomes the fastest and most consistent combo deck in the format, rather than the tempo deck with a combo that it is right now. We can't ban both Grapeshot and Splinter Twin because that eliminates just about every consistent combo deck from Modern (with Eggs gone).
It's bad enough Aggro struggles right now outside of Affinity. With Grapeshot
gone, we'd be left with nothing but Midrange and Control.
May 14, 2014 6:58 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #32
i'd like for a REASON to unban Cloudpost in modern.... but i'm sure that would require some damn good format breaking instantly banned card to do so
May 14, 2014 7:54 a.m.
You can also unbar Seething Song and Pyretic Ritual ... But Ponder and Preordain are just good cards that the format should have. Combo benefits the most from them, but tempo or control should get a card that's better than Serum Visions . It's okay, but not great, and yes, twin easily could be banned, as Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is still a viable option, and with both Ponder and Preordain the slight efficiency drop there will be made up for by greater consistency.
May 14, 2014 8:03 a.m.
- Pyretic Ritual isn't banned.
- Unbanning Seething Song , Ponder , and Preordain just means Ad Nauseam combo and Splinter Twin takes Pyromancer Ascension 's place. The key is that Splinter Twin is already an established deck, currently in the top 3 best of the format, next to Pod and Affinity.
- Splinter Twin is not a broken deck and doesn't need to be banned...until you unban both Ponder and Preordain .
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is a turn slower, dies to Lightning Bolt , and costs triple red. There's a reason Splinter Twin only runs a few copies.
- Banning two cards so we can unban three cards to shake up the meta because "storm is unfair" is ridiculous when it causes more problems than it solves. Right now, the deck meets WotC's philosophy of what Modern should be (turn four format, one deck isn't dominating).
- The format is already oversaturated with blue decks because of how good Snapcaster Mage is in combination with Lightning Bolt . Giving blue more powerhouse, low-cost cards will further homogenize decks.
It doesn't show up very often at the professional level because of how easy it is to blow out. The only reason it did well at PT:BNG was because a bunch of Zoo players showed up, which is probably Storm's best match.
May 14, 2014 9:46 a.m.
1.) I meant Rite of Flame
sorry.
2.) I think having 8 1-drop card-fixers that are both really good was a bit extreme, so I think unbanning one of them would be the right move.
3.) I understand how kiki is worse than twin, but Ponder
/Preordain
(whichever were to come back) would make the deck's draws more consistent, meaning that the deck's actual combo becomes more fragile, but it becomes more consistent to find the required pieces.
4.) Ad Nauseam
requires 5 or 6 mana to go off, so it's not very fast. Ponder
helps, but it still can't win quickly, especially against disruption
5.) I agree that storm is by no means dominating the format, but i personally dislike the lack of interaction that storm has. Twin at least can play like a tempo deck without the combo, but storm is just cantrip, cantrip, ritual, ritual, ritual, cantrip, ritual, Past in Flames
, re-play all my stuff, Grapeshot
you lose. I'm all for cantrips that fix your deck, and rituals to actually ramp your mana for a single spell, but the deck just plays so un-interactively, and leads to boring games. Blue is good, but every colour has strong stuff. Tarmogoyf
, Dark Confidant
, Lightning Bolt
, Path to Exile
, Liliana of the Veil
, Birthing Pod
, Cranial Plating
(not really a colour, but hardly blue). Yes, twin is the biggest deck, but pod and affinity are close behind. I understand that it's not the biggest deck, but the card just makes matches boring, and I don't want to have to waste sideboard slots on a deck that I don't believe should even exist in its current form.
May 15, 2014 3:16 a.m.
@KingSorin: ...and that's what it comes down to. We can't just ban decks KingSorin thinks are boring to play against. I dislike playing against Infect and burn, but that doesn't mean either one of those decks is banworthy. There are plenty of interactive ways to deal with Storm before sideboarding. That's what the deck preys upon: other decks that don't play interactive cards. It's already unforgiving to play. If your opponent has any sort of disruption (and really...like any whatsoever), you get blown out.
If anything out of that deck should be banned, it should be Past in Flames .
May 15, 2014 6:11 a.m.
I understand that, but overall the primary point of magic is for it to be fun (competitive also, and interactive), and storm in its current form is not fun or interactive. If we can make the format more fun whilst still keeping it a turn-4 format, I think it'd be better to play in. I understand that it's not the most threatening deck right now, but remember the OP said: 'what cards do you think should be banned', and i personally think Grapeshot , as it's not interactive. I'm all for competitive combo decks that actually interact with your opponent (I don't count 4 Lava Axe s for 2 mana as interactive), so I think twin is a fine deck right now, same as pod. I hate infect also, but it's too bad to worry about. The trouble is: storm actually does well, and I don't think there should be a non-interactive combo deck in modern that does this.
May 15, 2014 7:22 a.m.
KingSorin: Dude, at the competitive level storm serves it's purpose: a powerful, quick kill. It's not hard to disrupt, it's difficult enough to play that enough people will mess it up and get discouraged. (i've seen countless matchups when the storm noob Grapeshot s his opponent for ten and then can't finish him off.) Honestly, I think that right now, nothing should be banned, but either Golgari Grave-Troll or Dread Return could be unbanned. Not both though. For bans, really, nothing stands out. There is nothing on the order of Mirrodin/Kamigawa affinity dominating modern. It's a healthy format with a diverse metagame. I do think that original brews getting to the top tier would be a breath of fresh air among the clouds of America Control, Affinity, Pod, Twin, Zoo, and even the deck that I'm defending, Storm. Sorry for such a long post.
May 15, 2014 2:17 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #39
WicKid52 im tron to get a deck going to use Griselbrand as a wincon
Also if you look at my profile you will see i am trying to make a curse deck competitive
May 15, 2014 2:46 p.m.
for the Griselbrand deck the grisel-cannon builds are a great start. Curse as in the Innistrad auras? That could be interesting. Thanks for showing me!
May 15, 2014 3:40 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #41
WicKid52 i was making a pun on my tron deck having griselbrand in the schematics
May 15, 2014 4:29 p.m.
I see. Nice oun, but Griselbrand has super high color levels for tron. Four black is a bit restrictive.
May 15, 2014 8:15 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #43
All my lands are swamps from Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and i have many lotus'
Slayne says... #2
Island
That card is over powered. Format breaking, even.
May 6, 2014 10:13 p.m.