What do you think will get the ban hammer this year?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 2, 2015, 4:32 p.m. by vance3
If there's a similar recent thread I missed, sorry. With the upcoming bannings I have a few questions, 1) what cards do you THINK will be banned and/or unbanned 2) what cards do you WANT to see banned and why?
vampirelazarus says... #3
Neither of those are broken. Pod can be dealt with very easily (I play it, I know that its not unbeatable).
Cruise is easily stopped by Remand. Or Rest in Peace. Or Relic of Progenitus. Or a variety of other things.
January 2, 2015 4:37 p.m.
If this is about Treasure Cruise: Fuck off.
Seriously. Use the search function.
If not then, I'm unsure but we may see unbannings.
January 2, 2015 4:39 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #6
I think Arcbound Ravager, Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Treasure Cruise, Liliana of the Veil, Birthing Pod, Dark Confidant, Griselbrand, Abrupt Decay, Remand, Mana Leak and foil zendikar islands should be banned, they all warp the format and break things and its not good.
January 2, 2015 4:46 p.m.
Hopefully wizards will ban the following cards:
Jeskai Ascendancy - this card is broken beyond reason. I don't know what they were thinking when printing this card... Nothing to add. Being able to combo off out of nowhere even against removal for the Ascendancy is just too good.
Treasure Cruise - I think Cruise should be banned in Modern as well as in Legacy. This card is just ridiculous. Being able to Ancestral Recall on T3/T4 is way too powerful. Sure graveyard-hate can help - but let's be honest. Are there any other cards that rely on the graveyard in those decks? Sure they run 1-2 Snapcaster Mage but that's about it. The rest is cheap cantrips, burn spells and aggressive creatures. Relic of Progenitus won't help you a bit, if you get beaten down by a 3/2 flying insectile aberration... So sideboarding specifically against Cruise is bad, because these sideboard options only help you against Cruise. Also it's really annoying how Treasure Cruise made spells like Duress or Thoughtseize really bad. If you Thoughtseize your opponent and you see: land land, land, threat, threat, huge threat and cruise - what do you take? Cruise to make it a 1for1 trade and then die to the huge threat? Or do you take the huge threat just to fuel their cruise, so they can find it again 2 turns later?
Dig Through Time - I think it's an open secret that I'm no blue mage. However lately I've been playing some Tarmo-Twin and Scapeshift in my playgroup. And it's ridiculous how powerful Dig is. Resolving a Dig Through Time EOT against a non-blue opponent, is the best feeling after casting Brainstorm or maybe resolving a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. There was a time when fair decks could steal a win from Scapeshift, if they couldn't find it or if you Thoughtseized their one copy in hand. These days are over. Scapeshift is one of the most powerful decks right now. It can run cheap mass-removal like Pyroclasm mainboard. It has blue for all the good counter-spells and Dig Through Time ensures you don't give a shit about discard-spells (which were a very powerful tool against Scapeshift before the printing of Dig Through Time).
Birthing Pod - It's dominance lately is just disgusting. It has maybe two bad matchups pre-board: Scapeshift and Tron. But given the aggressive nature of the format right now, Tron isn't really playable and so the only real challenge for Pod-Players comes from Scapeshift. But that's not alone it. I think the biggest problem with Birthing Pod is that it's basically the only creature-based midrange deck that exists. Sure you can try to beat it with Abzan Midrange or Zoo. Maybe you will even get a few lucky wins if they cannot handle your Anafenza, the Foremost or Scavenging Ooze or if you come out guns blazing with 3 Nacatl opening into 2 tribal flames kill you on T4. But more often than not you're on the backfoot against them. Essentially the T1 decks right now are: Ascendancy-Combo, Scapeshift, U/R Delver and Pod. I know wizards wanted to help creature based decks with Birhting Pod - however they made playing any other creature based deck impossible right now. Being able to consistently fetch a Siege Rhino when your opponent has to rely on the heart of the cards is not fair. And given how insanely good Siege Rhino is right now, I think it's time for a Pod-Ban.
I hope they unban the following cards:
Ancestral Vision - If they ban Treasure Cruise they shouldn't leave the blue mages all sad and broken. Give them some toys. Maybe BUG-control can be a thing in Modern too (like Shardless-BUG is in Legacy).
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - I honestly don't think Jace would be even good right now. I now this sounds crazy, but with all the aggressive decks running around, Jace is a 4-Drop, that dies to Bolt. Or if you Fateseal on the turn he enters play doesn't really do much in terms of board-development. I think you could safely unban Jace right now.
Bloodbraid Elf - Maybe this card can held Jund to climb back to T1. But is it even better than Siege Rhino? Is it good enough to compete? What would a Bloodbraid-Jund list look like? I mean it's not that Bloodbraid was too good and that's what got him banned. Jund was the deck even after the ban. Because as we all know now: Deathrite Shaman was the real problem there.
And now for some wishful thinking: please unban Deathrite Shaman. Never gonna happen, but it would be sooooo sweet :(
Regards
January 2, 2015 4:58 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #9
I really think they should just push five color decks in every format, why would you ever want to not play a color
January 2, 2015 5:02 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #10
I don't see any cards being banned anywhere. But shall anything be unbanned?
I think a few cards could be unbanned and it'd be fine.
January 2, 2015 5:05 p.m.
Go fuck yourself ChiefBell, reading replies from idiots like you that don't help the conversation but only post to whine in every thread gets old. Don't like it? Don't read it.
Epochalyptik I suppose it would help to specify, yes modern bannings. I've been reading a few articles written by pro's with very different opinions. A few are crying for an all out banning of not just Cruise but all blue Delve spells and Jeskai Ascendancy among other's. Then there are other's that argue none of the "new" cards should be banned as they add flavor to the game, with some saying more cards should come off the ban list to help balance the meta.
January 2, 2015 5:05 p.m.
Lol. Let's ban Cruise and Dig but unban JTMS. Do you even Magic?
January 2, 2015 5:05 p.m.
Do you even use the search function? Same thread every.single.day. This has been absolutely done to death. The conversation has happened. Don't clog the forums with topics that we've already discussed. There are literally two threads in a row at the moment about potential bannings and unbannings. Is that really necessary?
January 2, 2015 5:07 p.m.
Nope, but I want a meta where it's reasonable to play Jund or any other form of B/G/x decks. Or U/W/R control. I don't think U/R Delver will die if they ban Treasure Cruise you can still have sick openings with Delver, flip into Swift, Swift, Probe you x2, hit you for 9 on T2. However I think it will be for the better of the format, if Birthing Pod is no longer available, especially right now, where no-one plays combo-Pod anymore, because the Midrange-plan is so much more resilient. If Pod goes back to playing combo I'm totally fine with that. You can compete against that with graveyard-hate and cheap removal. Have you tried to Abrupt Decay a Siege Rhino? Have you been sitting there feeling confident until your opponent topdecks a Birthing Pod and goes: sac my finks, get Rhino, next turn sac my finks get Resto, flash Rhino?
Also why would I recommend an unbanning of JtMS and Vision if I wanted the meta to be Jund-only? If you want to have a discussion I'm totally fine with that. But please don't make posts that make you look stupid. I know you're better than that.
January 2, 2015 5:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
Civility.
ChiefBell has a point. There are tons of ban-related threads in the Modern forum, and it would be a good idea to at least look at them before deciding to start your own.
If you're discussing a specific format, your thread goes in that format's forum. Moved.
January 2, 2015 5:10 p.m.
well you seem to want a lot of blue bannings and then an unban of blood braid elf which is pretty significant for Jund. With pod out of the way it would pave the wave for BGR to be potentially the only viable midrange deck, and with card draw out of the way the top aggro decks will suffer. Seems like modern may become all about midrange and control, and with blood braid offering potentially free Lilianas then Jund will be really, really good.
Also vance3 discussion of banlist:
The list goes on.
January 2, 2015 5:13 p.m.
Putrefy. That's my reasoning. Seems like if that scenario happened then BGR would become REALLY good.
January 2, 2015 5:14 p.m.
"please don't make posts that make you look stupid". You just made a post advocating the unbanning of the most broken card in all of Magic. So take your own advice, and move on to another topic. You aren't qualified to handle this one.
January 2, 2015 5:17 p.m.
I skimmed the post until I read "unban JTMS." Your credibility is gone.
January 2, 2015 5:42 p.m.
Aaaaad I forgot to @Putrefy Anyways. The current meta is awesome. Although I hate playing against Cruise, I don't think it's warping the format. I think decks will just have conform around it and adjust as needed. I can name 10+ answers to Pod, Cruise, Dig that are main deck and SB playable cards. I love Modern right now.
January 2, 2015 5:44 p.m.
@ kmcree
See, if I'm not qualified to handle this topic, then please enlighten me and tell me why JtMS would be such a broken and bonkers good card in the current meta. Because it can stop Midrange-Pod from doing it's stuff? Because it holds up so well against Delver and Peezy?
Take a look at Legacy. How much play is seeing "the most borken card in all of Magic" there? It's basically played in two decks: Stoneblade and Miracles, as a 1/2-of. That's some showing for the "most broken card in all of Magic".
Maybe you should take a chill-pill. Sit down and think before you post. Maybe think about the meta-game and what impact the unbanning of JtMS would have. But I'm afraid that's too much to ask. JtMS got this stamp from wizards: "BROKEN" and then there are some kids, that don't care about context and the bigger picture and just cry wolf anytime someone is trying to have serious discussion about a once broken magic-card.
Damn, I'm not advocating a SFM or Skullclamp-unban. These 2 cards really would warp the meta...
January 2, 2015 5:46 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #23
Eh, it's pretty busted, but "most broken card in Magic" seems like an overstatement. I mean, I heard Ancestral Recall is pretty good.
January 2, 2015 5:50 p.m.
Lol, Legacy is a turn 3-4 format. If you haven't won by then, you've lost. JTMS is a 4 drop. So yeah, he isn't played much.
If you put JTMS back into modern, literally EVERY. SINGLE. DECK. would be blue midrange/control. Period. If you don't understand why, I really can't help you. But there have been LITERALLY 30 of these exact same posts in the last 2 months, and in more than half of them, JTMS is discussed at length. So, learn how to use the search function, go read those discussions, and if you still have questions, you can come back.
And really? You're telling me to think before I post? You just advocated banning pretty much every powerful card outside of Jund, and unbanning cards Jund wants. Talk about biased. Why don't you stop and think about things from another perspective, besides just the "I want to play Jund and I want my deck to be the best so fuck everybody else" mind set.
January 2, 2015 5:53 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #25
@Putrefy I respect you as a player, but your comments on this thread just make you sound like a sore BGx player.
Pod can't be banned because, like you said, "it's basically the only creature-based midrange deck that exists". The diversity is very important to Wizards, and the deck itself is very beatable if you want to.
Treasure Cruise I agree with for my own reasons, but for some reason Dig Through Time seems fine to stay. Maybe it's because I love casting it so much. :)
Jeskai Ascendancy is another card you can beat if you want to. Sometimes they can win through Abrupt Decay, but it's a pretty good answer. They are not beating Slaughter Games, they are not beating Counterflux. There are commonly played answers to the card, so I'm OK with it.
Regarding unbannings, I'm with everyone else that Ancestral Vision is fine, but only if you're banning Treasure Cruise. Both in the format would likely be too much.
I'm not sure about Jace, the Mind Sculptor. On the one hand, he's incredibly powerful when he goes unanswered. On the other hand, how often will he go unanswered?
Can we all shut up about bannings please? Let's complain about them afterwards instead. Deal?
January 2, 2015 5:54 p.m.
@Putrefy What you aren't seeing is the creature base and counters that are allowed in Legacy that keep Jace in check.... We don't have many of the cards that keep Jace from dominating Legacy and yet he still does. If you let him back into Modern you HAVE to unban many cards to keep him in check or reprint many legacy cards for modern. Either way, it's not a healthy option for magic at all. Jace does not need to re-enter Modern and the fact that that you don't understand why shows your lack of understanding his power level. Have you played against Jace?
January 2, 2015 5:55 p.m.
Ancestral Recall is very powerful. But its only a 1 shot deal, whereas JTMS provides repeatable card advantage, and can also be a win con. So yes, Recall is broken, but I think JTMS is slightly more broken.
January 2, 2015 5:55 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #29
@APPLE01DOJ I always appreciate your fresh perspective. :)
@kmcree The tools for handling Jace in Modern are much the same as in Legacy. Lightning Bolt does the job (Chandra is playable because she doesn't die to it, similar concept with Liliana), and Pod can always trample through. I think the relevant difference between Legacy and Modern here is that Modern creature decks are more threat-dense, meaning that it's sometimes impossible to play Jace into an empty board.
January 2, 2015 5:58 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #30
kmcree' says... #3
But there have been LITERALLY 30 of these exact same posts in the last 2 months, and in more than half of them APPLE01DOJ says.. "Unban Deathrite Shaman"
haha
January 2, 2015 5:58 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #31
I hope my comments don't reflect that I want Jace unbanned, because I don't. He just won't be as dominating as people think.
January 2, 2015 5:59 p.m.
@APPLE01DOJ: haha pretty much. Although, I do have a bit of a soft spot for DRS, so I honestly can't say I disagree with you.
January 2, 2015 6:01 p.m.
Honestly, as someone who plays control, and has also played both aggro and midrange against control, I can pretty confidently say that every control deck would want JTMS. And he would absolutely warp the meta.
January 2, 2015 6:03 p.m.
Unban DRS and Golgari Grave Troll and don't ban anything.
January 2, 2015 6:04 p.m.
GlistenerAgent: I'm a little confused. Are you saying that because there are more creatures in modern, JTMS would be worse? He only dies to bolt of you don't + him first, which most good players probably would to get him out of that range.
Just imagine something like a t3 Volcanic Fallout/Anger of the Gods into t4 JTMS against Delver, Affinity, or Infect. That's game over. Or against Pod, t4 Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God into t5 JTMS backed up with a Dispel. Either option is just filthy, and the meta would quickly devolve into decks with JTMS, and decks built specifically to beat JTMS. And that's exactly what Wizards wants to avoid.
January 2, 2015 6:14 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #36
I'm with ChiefBell. What is this, the fifteenth or sixteenth thread about Jeskai Ascendancy or Treasure Cruise (or both) being banned? Holy shit, that horse is long dead, stop flogging it.
Once again, as it turns out, Treasure Cruise is fine. Jeskai Ascendancy is also fine. Unbanning Jace, the Mind Sculptor is not fine. Sure, it would really bring control back to the format, but turn 4 Jace with protection and fetchlands would be the single dumbest thing in Modern. Period. Jace will never be in Modern as long as Modern has legal fetches, I can prettymuch guarantee that. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not played Legacy seriously.... ever. Banning Birthing Pod is not only not necessary, but it's also not going to happen due to the fact that WotC would blow up an entire archetype by doing that.
I feel like these threads are often really this: "I lost to X card. It's fucking broken. IT NEEDS TO BE BANNED!" or this: "I hate playing against X deck/I really want to play X deck.... they should ban/unban XYZ cards so I can do that and not get fucking shitstomped."
January 2, 2015 6:36 p.m.
I am new to modern as a format...but I personally don't think any cards need to be banned currently. TC is good in CERTAIN situations...even in modern filling the graveyard that quickly is difficult at the best of times from my experience, limited as that may be (unless your deck is self-mill or retarded burn/cantrips. I currently run Rakdos Aggro in modern and am having great success. Haha. I don't play competetively, but in my area at FNM level and such. The only deck TC really screws over (once again, by MY experience) is 8-Rack...which saddens me, because that is really what I want to play. The Modern Format seems healthy to me, so I think for now WotC should just leave it.
January 2, 2015 6:57 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
@Scytec Delver is able to do it very consistently. So many cheap spells along with Thought Scour make turn 3 Treasure Cruise pretty easy to cast.
January 2, 2015 7:01 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #39
@Scytec Delver is able to do it very consistently. So many cheap spells along with Thought Scour make turn 3 Treasure Cruise pretty easy to cast, not to mention fetchlands.
January 2, 2015 7:01 p.m.
@GlistenerAgent - Even with that being the case...turn 4, you are moving into most decks win-con area...granted 3 additional cards is VERY helpful...but this is 1 archetype in a world as broad as modern...does it really merit a ban? From my understanding Delver Burn has been a good entry point for many new modern players who will quickly diversify their decks. It may be annoying playing around it a year or so...but after that you are going to have SO many new players who branch out and trade into what they need for different decks. I really do no think it would be an issue...like I said before however...I am relatively new to the format...I could be mistaken. Haha
January 2, 2015 7:08 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #41
It's also played in Ascendancy combo decks.
In general, my argument against Cruise is that it's not a card that should be cast in Modern. It's far too powerful an effect. But that's just my take.
January 2, 2015 7:09 p.m.
I too agree with GlistenerAgent that the power level may be too much for Modern.
January 2, 2015 7:21 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #44
I think everyone needs to keep calm and Magic on. Wait and see boys and girls, let's just wait and see.
January 2, 2015 11:39 p.m.
CharlesMandore says... #45
Guys, this same discussion happened yesterday. Let's move on. Haters will hate what they want, it's not our job to fix, or correct their opinions. Don't take the bait. If you want to ban a card, ban Camel.
January 3, 2015 7:50 a.m.
untranslated says... #46
Ban TC, unban Jace or AVision. Possibly even glimpse of nature since it only really works into a few decks. And its green ( and no i dont play green )
January 5, 2015 6 a.m.
Unban Glimpse of Nature? AHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Oh god. Do you know what elves can do with that? It's like consistent T3 wins.
January 5, 2015 6:53 a.m.
Only thing they should get rid of is Jeskai Ascendancy - it's a better version of Splinter Twin that is so hard to beat. treasure cruise and dig thru time good thing not that ridiculous. I could see them taking off Bloodbraid or Ancestral Vision, but obviously not both. Maybe just Bloodbraid would be nice, keep aggro strong in a world full of blue combo.
Dr_Jay says... #2
Treasure Cruise and Birthing Pod. Plz. Do it naow.
January 2, 2015 4:35 p.m.