What does Modern need (CUz we need another one of these posts :P)
Modern forum
Posted on June 26, 2015, 1:51 p.m. by readerrw07
In your opinion, whats the main thing Modern as a format needs? For me, local Modern hasnt really picked up, mainly because of the perceived high cost of entry, combined with the general lack of experimentation in the format, two problems which I think kinda work off of each other. I've heard similar stories from my friends who've moved to other states. Note that I'm talking about at the local store level, with people that dont go to GPs. What do you guys think the main thing this format needs at the moment?
readerrw07 says... #3
Well I cant really say whether the format is great or not, since it kinda doesnt exist locally. We have 1 shop able to do unsanctioned tournaments monthly to try and get support going, but they have to use an "8 card proxy" rule just to get the tournaments to fire.
June 26, 2015 1:55 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #4
That's a result of people in your area being more casual players. For every cutthroat competitor there's a person who plays Magic entirely for fun, and that's totally fine. If you want to play competitive Modern, you need to get them on board.
June 26, 2015 1:57 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #5
But why does modern strictly need to be a competetive format? And why only the two categories of "cutthroat competitive" and "casual"? Is there no in between? What about the intermediate players who never go past local store tournaments and FNM? I personally dont think a format should be off-limis to everyone but the most competitive (and often richest, lets be honest), players. Please note that I'm not trying to be argumentative, only to spark discussion
June 26, 2015 2:01 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
It's not off-limits. Budget Modern is a thing. Get your friends into that. I play Modern, and I am most certainly in the middle category.
June 26, 2015 2:03 p.m.
Budget modern is a fantastic thing. Build UG delver or Miracle Grow for like under $100 easily.
June 26, 2015 2:05 p.m. Edited.
readerrw07 says... #8
Can those decks actually compete with the other decks likely to show up at local level tournaments though? Can $100 Burn and Delver decks compete with those 3 guys that show up able to dump $400 into tron or $300 into Affinity? (Using MTGO stats so paper prices are likely higher I think). What about the $300 budget Twin decks or those one or two people able to make a Zoo deck or Jund deck for $900? Will budget decks stand a decent chance or would tournaments end up with those 4 people taking home prize support?
I apologize if I'm not making much sense. I'm trying to see other people's opinions so I cna make a better informed one myself but I'm horrible at wording my thoughts to get me point across
June 26, 2015 2:14 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #9
So here's the thing about modern: Any well built deck can do well in any tournament. Your $50 budget burn deck can take down FNM left and right. FNM is not competitive. Your decks will do well as long as you put the effort in behind them.
June 26, 2015 2:17 p.m.
Realistically, things like modern masters + reprints of staples like Thoughtseize help the format a lot. In BFZ, Wizards could reprint the Zendikar fetches, Inquisition, Linvala, Spiritdancer, bloodghast, etc.
June 26, 2015 2:17 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #11
Reprints are obviously helpful, though Modern Masters annoys me mainly because the insane single print run doesnt really do much aside from a few cards. "Yay Goyf is only $160 now. Now I can finally use him in a deck!" said no one ever :P
June 26, 2015 2:21 p.m.
That is a nebulous question.
Can they compete locally? Depends on your local meta.
Will the beat $1000+ decks. Most likely not - no.
But if there's one guy playing the $1500 deck, 5 guys playing the $400 deck and you with your max $200 deck you're going to have a bad time.
It /totally/ depends on the meta.
June 26, 2015 2:21 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #13
I'm having a hard time figuring out how to word what I want to say, so until I figure it out, I'm gonna step back and not post for a bit. Just saying this so nobody thinks I'm ignoring anyone. If some discussion ends up coming from this, awesome, but for now I'm not gonna try and verbalize my thoughts when it doesnt even sound right in my head
June 26, 2015 2:29 p.m.
Barry_McKawkinner says... #14
budget decks can do good.tgis guy lasy week forgot his deck so he threw an infect deck together from binder cards and borrowing cards and took 1st
June 26, 2015 3:14 p.m.
SealableZero says... #15
Just build cheap troll decks that hate the meta. You won't win a lot, but it's funny to see those who do spend a lot of money on their decks get pissed. Land destruction against tron is funny
June 26, 2015 6:07 p.m.
I'm a highly not-competitive player that still spends thousands on the game. For me, it was the casual acquisition over time. $40 here, $30 here, that lead into playing modern with more than budget decks.
If you have a job, this method shouldn't be hard. You can even do it if you have the habitual need for instant gratification. I got my goyfs by trading a gigantic stack of cards I had previously acquired for other decks. So Standard playables became modern staples.
Also, pay attention to price trends. I knew I wanted to play Blue something so I dropped 130 bucks on a playset of Snapcaster even though it was a hardship at the time. Skip forward 4 months later and I'm very glad I did that then...
In other words, plan for what you want to play. If you like Green - Goyfs will be Necessary backup for any deck you play ever. If you enjoy blue, the same can be said for Snapcasters. KNOW what you want to play too. Don't invest in a huge deck without trying it out first.
Finally, yes budget modern is very much a thing. I find experience will serve you better than expensive cards will.
And personally, I don't see how Modern needs anything in particular. It's the best format... without the printing limitations of Legacy and Vintage, and without the rotation of Standard. I really hate games that come with an expiration date. The only reason there's a perceived lack of innovation is because there's such a focus on netdecking. There are literally dozens.... DOZENS.... of viable deck archetypes, which are established as functional in the meta. Roguebrews that people make at home that just need a little work only add into that already huge melting pot. It's very important to understand the difference between world class worthy and functional/fun to play.
June 26, 2015 7:51 p.m. Edited.
JexInfinite says... #17
While I despise the idea of making a deck worse because you don't have money, making a budget deck as a challenge is a great idea. I've wrecked most budget players with my trusty goblin friends.
June 26, 2015 8:13 p.m.
JexInfinite is correct. Budget Modern is the art of inventing/running rogue decks. Do NOT make strictly worse versions of existing decks.
June 26, 2015 8:15 p.m.
actual reprints in sets. not just a modern masters every other year
June 27, 2015 10:31 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #21
Modern needs to be tested for. Or at least supported at some level by Wizards in a more active fashion. Such as printing Modern viable cards in Standard. I've gone on this tangent several times, but I frankly do not like how Wizards treats Modern. They hype it up and encourage people to play, but give little to no support for the format as a whole.
One example of this is how they do not print cards with Modern in mind. Therefore, when something like Treasure Cruise comes along it utterly blindsides them and they react harshly. Notably they banned Dig Through Time based upon pure speculation. Which is a mistake. An arbitrary and harmful mistake to the format as a whole. I firmly believe they should have given more time for the meta to adjust to cards that were clearly new and exciting for the format, but they did not.
Another example is the lack of reprinting Serum Visions. They had several chances to do this in Standard, notably Theros and Magic Origins. To a lesser extent Gitaxian Probe could have been reprinted in MM 2015. I know there are critics that say Serum Visions couldn't have been reprinted for lore reasons, but if that's the case, that's a piss poor reason to refuse to reprint a common that is up to what? Something like fifteen dollars?
And on a complete and utter biased note: give Control an actual home in Modern. In a format of combo, aggro and midrange decks, for the most part, Control has little to no support. There seems to be a reluctance to support Blue as a colour for a variety of reasons. Namely, a lot of people don't like playing against Control decks, but there is also the fear of turning Modern into Legacy-Lite. I understand these complaints and concerns, but would the format be broken by giving control players a little support in the way of an efficient draw spell. Maybe an instant speed Divination?
I hope no one latches on to the utterly biased paragraph and presents that as my entire argument. Overall I believe Wizards should, to a minimal extent:
- Actively print Modern viable cards.
- Reprint necessary cards such as Serum Visions.
- Allow time for a metagame to actively develop around new cards before deciding on bans.
- Test new cards to make sure they do not have to be banned immediately.
June 27, 2015 1:17 p.m.
Barry_McKawkinner says... #22
why should you not make bad versions of decks?I couldn't afford wilt leaf liege and Nobel H-arch so i used worse cards till i was able to get them.
June 27, 2015 10:35 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
Unban DRS, unban Pod, unban Dig. All 3 of these bans were some BS...
June 27, 2015 11:16 p.m.
I agree with CanadianShinobi to a large degree. Still, I'd like to hear if other people think otherwise. If so, why?
June 28, 2015 12:27 a.m.
Lots of people disagree with testing for modern because a) it's too hard (large card pool) and b) the ban list is a natural safety net anyway.
Both those arguments are certainly valid but in my opinion not major enough to make testing for modern a bad idea.
Though I do think wizards aren't doing an awful job with modern as it is. If I had to rate it out of 10 id give them a 6. This is where 0 is modern not existing and 10 is constant reprints, supplementary modern product and total commitment to developing new cards for modern in fresh sets.
June 28, 2015 4:10 a.m.
If you can't afford the big-ass expensive deck, go for the troll, "look at me get you angry", cheap draw deck...You'll have fun, they won't! Case and point (also shameless deck plug): Sure...Attack me!
To be fair though, that decklist had no real win-con inserted into it, which made it even more frustrating for your opponent. You'd lose to decks like burn, but you'll win...sorry, you won't lose..against every deck that has damage as a win-con, which is 90% of the meta let's be honest. And if you decide to invest in it, you can make it even more competitive, going into fetches, and Snapcaster Mage.
The real trick to modern is to find a good "budget" deck and then improve on it. There's plenty of budget list like infect and burn which you can then build on, boggle is also a good one, surprisingly mill is a good strategy as well, get an idea, get a shell, then spend the money to make it optimal.
Just my two cents...
June 30, 2015 2:13 a.m.
Barry_McKawkinner - It's fine to make worse versions of existing decks if you are going to build up to the real thing, but it is not fine to just make poor substitutes and expect the deck to function in a truly optimum way. Taking goyf out of BG/x and replacing it with Putrid Leech is something you can do - but you will not have a good time, for example.
You would do better to produce a bespoke list that you designed that can better work around your budget limitations because often synergy is enough to create a winner.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
Nothing. The format is actually great, and people need to stop whining.
On the other hand, I am the biggest proponent of the format on the site. I might be biased.
June 26, 2015 1:54 p.m.