What if Wizards banned Snapcaster Mage....
Modern forum
Posted on Sept. 20, 2015, 7:35 p.m. by KillDatBUG
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #3
Or just ban Lantern of Insight. And Amulet of Vigor.
September 20, 2015 7:38 p.m.
YEAH GUYS, LETS BAN EVERY CARD I DON'T LIKE! I HAVE THE ABILITY TO FIGHT THESE DECKS WITH STRATEGY AND PRACTICE, BUT CHOSE TO COMPLAIN INSTEAD!
September 20, 2015 7:40 p.m.
I just feel like that would only make SplinterTwin decks would be easier to combo off and Scapeshit would become much more prevalent than it is now.
September 20, 2015 7:41 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #6
NateJH damn bro calm down
Necrotesque lol as if blue control decks were a thing in the first place
I think it'd be interesting, but man Ponder is broken as shit, I'm not sure banning Snappy would help counteract how freakin good it is
September 20, 2015 7:44 p.m.
Yeah, Ponder and Preordain weren't banned b/c of Blue control but because of Storm. And you don't want Storm to be the deck to play. This is coming from a Modern Storm player too.
September 20, 2015 7:46 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #8
ThisIsBullshit he has a point though. people bitch about banning powerful (but not game-breaking) cards an awful lot on this site.
September 20, 2015 7:47 p.m.
That's not really compensation. They're vastly different cards and they help different strategies. Snappy helps control and midrange decks get added value out of their cards and gain incremental advantage. The cantrips help combo decks filter through their decks faster and find their pieces. What you're suggesting would basically just crush blue control and allow stuff like Storm and Scapeshift to run rampant. Not what most people want from Modern at all.
September 20, 2015 7:48 p.m.
Also, I do kind of sympathize with NateJH. It seems like almost every week there's a thread about banning either Snappy or Goyf. It does get a bit tedious.
September 20, 2015 7:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
What if someone proposed a ban theory that was based on a well-constructed argument and evidence to support the ban as a good move?
September 20, 2015 7:54 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #12
Then I would listen to them. But as far as I know, no such argument has ever been proposed on this site.
(I edited this comment because on further inspection, it came off as a bit hostile, which was not my intention.)
September 20, 2015 7:56 p.m. Edited.
The only pro-banning arguments I ever see on these threads are "these cards are too expensive, we should ban them" and "these cards get played in too many decks, we should ban them." Both arguments are ludicrous, insulting, and frankly aren't worthy of a real response.
September 20, 2015 8 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #14
Epochalyptik says...
"What if someone proposed a ban theory that was based on a well-constructed argument and evidence to support the ban as a good move?"
Not sure I have ever seen that happen on T/O.
September 20, 2015 8:01 p.m.
Here's what I'm seeing in this thread. KillDatBUG asked a question about banning, but didn't give any reasons supporting it. NateJH expressed his outrage in an unsatisfactory way, but his point stands as kmcree said.
Maybe if KillDatBUG would help us out and give more reasons aside from unbannings, that would further the dialogue aside from "That's stupid and you're stupid!" that we normally get.
September 20, 2015 8:02 p.m.
No every week some imbecile post on here, Reddit, MTGSalvation, etc. saying to ban or unban X card without providing any reasoning as to why it would be beneficial. Half of the it is some Tier 2-3 card like Lantern of Insight, a perfectly fair format pillar like Tarmogoyf, etc.; something they probably have lost to before and are salty.
September 20, 2015 8:02 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #17
kmcree technically by you posting your complaint about their lack of proper logic and debate skills, you are posting a real response.
September 20, 2015 8:03 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #18
JWiley129 if a man does not prove he is intelligent by his proofs (positive or negative) to the issue that he is putting forth, then how are we to judge that he is intelligent? the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
not saying he isn't intelligent, just that he isn't convincing us of it by his words (and only in the context of responding to JWiley129's comment).
September 20, 2015 8:05 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #19
Alright guys, you're right. I didn't give a reason for the OP, and that makes me look bad. So, here you go:
I think that unbanning Ponder and Preordain would add consistency to the blue decks, which is an interesting idea. However, this would be too strong with Snapcaster Mage, which is why I think it should be banned if those cantrips were unbanned. If this were to happen, the intent would be that blue trades power for consistency, opening up potential unbans like Ancestral Vision or potential reprints like Counterspell.
I also don't think decks like Storm would become broken, or even necessarily good with these cantrips, because Storm lacks good engine cards (Like Rite of Flame, Seething Song, and Treasure Cruise). Storm also is terrible against discard and sideboard hate.
September 20, 2015 8:11 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #20
Except the entire point of Storm is to consistently refuel your hand and be able to get your Storm cards when you need them. Both of which are accomplished by Ponder and Preordain. Card draw and scry/pseudo-scry? That's every Storm player's wet dream.
September 20, 2015 8:13 p.m.
Try play testing a Modern storm deck with Ponder and Preordain added in and then tell me Storm wouldn't dominate the format. Again, those cantrips won't help midrange or combo decks nearly as much as Snappy does, but would absolutely push combo and Storm over the top.
September 20, 2015 8:18 p.m.
Sorry I meant they wouldn't help midrange or control not midrange or combo lol
September 20, 2015 8:26 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #23
What if OP was just wondering and wasn't being 100% serious :3
September 20, 2015 8:34 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #24
Then why post? This is a serious Magic discussion site. Trolls and misguided posters notwithstanding.
September 20, 2015 8:38 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #25
But you could throw a question to the wind to generate discussion. Just yesterday we had an "unban SFM" conversation that while, in reality, the proposition is probably ludicrous, generating some conversation isn't a bad thing.
September 20, 2015 8:47 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #26
MindAblaze when did Source Film Maker get banned on TappedOut?
September 20, 2015 8:51 p.m.
canterlotguardian - MindAblaze is talking about unbanning Stoneforge Mystic in Modern.
September 20, 2015 9:11 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #28
Serious discussion site?
The vast majority of the user base are casuals. Yeah, serious discussions arise, but I don't think we are a "serious" site.
September 20, 2015 9:27 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #29
Unban Deathrite Shaman. I love that card.
It could potentially slow down Delve.
September 20, 2015 9:27 p.m. Edited.
VampireArmy says... #30
Give them Dig Through Time instead maybe.
Not as easily abused, actually helps control decks by providing card selection
September 20, 2015 9:46 p.m.
Dalektable says... #31
Would it really be that bad if Wizards unbanned Dig Through Time and Deathrite Shaman in the same announcement? Two cards players love and disagreed with the bannings would return, and would add some interesting strategies to modern. I'm also of the opinion that Sword of the Meek should be unbanned. The combo is not too powerful, but it is strong and would add another competitive tier 2-1 deck to the metagame. Or hell, maybe it would be a situation like with Golgari Grave-Troll and nothing would change...except for me playing the deck at FNM. But, with all this being said I don't claim to be an expert on modern though I like to think I have a pretty decent knowledge. Additionally, I am in favor of more power as opposed to the restricting of it. That also applies to standard and newer sets, but thats a discussion for another thread.
September 20, 2015 10:10 p.m.
ClockworkSwordfish says... #32
I feel like people would play Snapcaster Mage less and play Ponder and/or Preordain more.
Maybe.
September 20, 2015 10:33 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #33
Dalektable I'm not actually sure that it would be a terrible thing unbanning both. Obviously the format power level increases immediately, but since the meta is incredibly healthy, people will adapt. It could be that DRS is just too oppressive, and hates on the DTT decks, as well as everything else, but it could be that it just increases the format's power and doesn't screw everything up.
September 20, 2015 11:18 p.m.
Deathrite Shaman is too good. The only new card it playes well against is Tasigur, the Golden Fang, but it's not like DRS can be seen as counterplay to delve. Most of the Delve is done before DRS might matter. Plus, any instant speed Delve cards can remove it from the gy before DRS's ability resolves. So that argument is meaningless. And the reasons for banning DRS are still true, it gives 
decks an incredible early game ramp and incredible end game.
I'm still on board to keeping Dig Through Time banned, but I also thought Treasure Cruise was fine. So what do I know.
On topic, as far as Ponder and Preordain go. For most blue decks they'll do a like-for-like swap of Serum Visions for Preordain and potentially add Ponder to replace some other cantrip. For Storm it'd likely be Sleight of Hand for Ponder, since Gitaxian Probe being free is such a huge game.
September 20, 2015 11:29 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #35
So you're saying you want to see flipped Delver of Secrets Flip everywhere?
September 20, 2015 11:48 p.m.
Actually, no. Ponder is much better than Preordain. Serum Visions is good for flipping Delver, but that's about it. Sleight of Hand is also pretty bad, relatively speaking. Blue would be terrifying.
September 20, 2015 11:48 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #38
What? Ban Snappy? Nope. I just picked do up a mint copy for $40. I need that card to hold its value!
But seriously, it's a strong card but it's fine for Modern. I don't think it's a candidate for banning. I suppose arguments exist for this though. I guess I just don't think it's a good move to ban format staples without serious forethought.
September 21, 2015 3:25 a.m.
If Snap was banned I would be sad as I'm probably going to have to sell mine since the mechanics quoted me 860 dollars to fix my car...
September 21, 2015 4:18 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #40
Damn that's the worst, man...Is it something you can do for less if you get the part(s) yourself and do your own labor?
September 21, 2015 4:35 a.m.
NoPantsParade says... #42
What if we unbanned Bloodbraid Elf and Deathrite Shaman and banned Snapcaster Mage and counterspells as compensation. That'd be nice.
September 21, 2015 7:19 a.m.
I don't think that Modern could handle both DRS and BBE, let alone one of them.
September 21, 2015 8:07 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #45
JWiley129 I realized that halfway through typing my comment but I decided to leave it as is. One, because I was deathly exhausted last night, and two, because I thought it was funny. I'm doing a Source Film Maker competition atm, so I've got SFM (the non Stoneforge Mystic variety) on the brain. Lol
September 21, 2015 8:43 a.m.
@ JakeHarlow - I could probably do it for just 150-200 as I was quoted 249 for parts. Tough part is i'll need to find a way to safely lift the entire car a good 12 inches off the ground, minimum. Some of the lines underneath have rusted and so coolant leaks. After about 20 miles the radiator is totally dry. I'll need to replace those lines once I find a way to safely lift a 2000 Caravan.
September 22, 2015 6:19 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #48
Eh, that's rough. I don't know how you'd do that safely. 4 jacks, one each corner? That doesn't sound super safe. I'm not gonna try to convince you to try something that may get you hurt. Hopefully you won't have to sell all your Snappys though. :(
September 22, 2015 1:30 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #49
Why do you need the whole car off the ground? One jack and a jack stand should be good enough
September 22, 2015 4:03 p.m.
Well the car is just so low to the ground already. To get it up high enough would be bad Juju for the tires on the side it was leaning on. I don't know I'll ask by pal what he thinks.
Necrotesque says... #2
Storm becomes a monster again and blue control decks vanish
September 20, 2015 7:36 p.m.