What is the most viable shell for UWR Control right now?
Modern forum
Posted on June 22, 2015, 11:20 p.m. by TheAnnihilator
To start off, yes. I know that UWR isn't a great deck to be on in this meta (sorry, JexInfinite, but we have to agree to disagree! =D).
I'm looking to find what lists have been most successful for you guys and to know what cards are needed to make UWR viable again. How can we revive this deck?
Servo_Token says... #3
In my opinion, the best shell for a UWR control deck in modern is a hardleather deck box, that way your deck won't get dusty while it sits on your shelf.
But for real, just because UWR was the best control deck, it doesn't need to continue to be. Maybe look places like Sultai, Esper, or grixis? Pat Chapin did fairly well with Grixis control at the most recent GP, I believe.
If you're dead set on the archetype though, there hasn't been much recent support for it, so the standard shell is still probably the best.
June 22, 2015 11:29 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #4
Wraths should probably be Verdicts in the main with actual Wrath in the board.
June 22, 2015 11:30 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #5
Aww I was going to give a witty answer, but I guess ThatJunkMagebeat me to it.
Keranos is great. Pretty much what's been said above is good if you're determined to make this work.
June 22, 2015 11:32 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #6
@GlistenerAgent Hm, 4 Electrolyze you say? Also, what combination of cards would be best in a BGx and Twin filled meta? I see a lot of lists on 3 Path to Exile, but I really want the fourth?
@ThatJunkMage I like UWR better since its removal an doubles as a wincon, and Sultai/Esper can't do that. Grixis is special, with Bolt/Electrolyze, but it still can't burn as well as UWR can. I guess it's a playstyle preference, honestly. Also, Lightning Helix is the shit.
So, consensus is Keranos in the main? What 2-mana counter is right, Mana Leak or Remand (I feel like Remand is well placed in the current meta, but Leak is a hard-counter)?
June 23, 2015 12:16 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #7
I also feel that (sideboard) Combust is criminally underplayed right now.
June 23, 2015 12:17 a.m.
I like the Restoration Angel + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo. Check out my Kiki-Kontrol deck.
June 23, 2015 4:32 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #11
Honestly, the UWRb list I've been running (and a couple others on MTGS have tested out variations) is performing a lot better. Yeah, the mana is greedy, but you've got Thundermaw and Keranos against the Moon plan, and only really need 1 Island to survive.
The sideboarding for UWR is the best, but everyone is super hesitant because of Tron and Amulet. It's a justified hesitation, but I don't think that it's a reason not to play the deck when you can fight through everything else pretty well.
A couple people are advocating Resto Angel, and it seems to be doing a far bit of work.
I would not recommend UWR control decks to anyone right now, because they require an enormous amount of skill to be successful with. Play Grixis Delver instead, or Jeskai Delver.
June 23, 2015 5:14 a.m.
Totally disagree with 4 Electrolyze in this heavy Jund meta. Helpful against delver but not a ton of the other top decks. Would run 3 max.
Keranos is your best wincon. It baffles me why others have said, on occasion, that he's bad, but there you go.
But seriously, UWR isn't the place to be right now. Esper probably is more so. You lack decent removal options against the larger threats and you lack early game threats of your own. You also will struggle to keep up with a Jund deck swinging Tarmogoyfs at you backed up by Outpost Siege or Dark Confidant. You also become unstuck against manlands.
June 23, 2015 5:16 a.m. Edited.
GlistenerAgent says... #13
Electrolyze is incredible against BGx. You need to keep card flow going, and the fact that it helps deal with Bob and Souls makes it a card you are very happy to draw most of the time.
June 23, 2015 5:47 a.m.
Didn't think much of bob and souls with this issue. Though a lot of the time it is just dead. And a dead card isn't great. Abzan isn't top of the meta anymore, Jund is. And abzan isn't even playing 4 Lingering Souls either.
Addressing Bob is nice though.
I still wouldn't run 4. A 4-of is a card you want to see every single game against every single deck. That is not this card. There are so many situations where you're just drawing a card for 3 mana.
Lets put it this way: As far as I'm concerned you tapping out on T3 to address my T2 play (Dark Confidant) or T3 play (Lingering Souls) is not going to end well for you when we go into T4.
June 23, 2015 5:52 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #15
It's never dead, though. It always cycles, you can just shoot their face at worst.
You are also preparing to kill all the X/1s out of UR Twin, which is the variant people seem to be starting to shift towards, and is obviously great vs Affinity.
Additionally, the card is just sweet to cast.
June 23, 2015 5:55 a.m.
I know how good it feels to cast but drawing a card and doing 2 to the face for 3 is not value. It IS good against aggro but it's no where near as good against a variety of other very, very popular decks. I don't think that makes it a slam-pick 4-of.
June 23, 2015 5:56 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #17
But never being dead is very valuable. I wouldn't fault you for playing 3, but four has played well for me.
June 23, 2015 6:03 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #18
I disagree with Esper being superior at the moment, Whilst the shell may be better set up long term it simply doesn't have enough clean answers to cards like Delver and Dark Confidant.
June 23, 2015 7:01 a.m.
Apart from all that removal you get in black with the removal you have in white and the counterspells you have in blue?
June 23, 2015 7:37 a.m.
I personally would play 2 electrolyze and 2 v cliques. Electrolyze is clearly an excellent card, but it just isn't good enough that you want 4 of them every single first game.
June 23, 2015 8:03 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #21
My point being spending 2 mana to kill a Bob is much less favourable then Bolting it.
Same goes for Delver except they counter stuffif they untap which makes 2 mana removal spells much much less appealing.
June 23, 2015 9:04 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #22
My two cents on the Electrolyze argument -- Against Junk, they're phenomenal... when they have Spirit tokens. Otherwise, you hate to stare at an Electrolyze whilst you die to 4/5 Goyfs and Rhinos. But, it is still a decent card, not to mention one of the best you can have against Lingering Souls. So, I don't mind 2-3 of them, but I'm not sold on running four.
What about running a couple mainboard, and then some in the sideboard? You could board them in v. Affinity and other control decks.
On a different note, has anyone tested playing with multiple Think Twice?
June 23, 2015 10:28 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #23
Think Twice is lower impact than anything you could play otherwise IMO. Too many other good cards.
I wouldn't board in Electrolyze. Playing 3 in the main sounds legit.
June 23, 2015 10:46 a.m.
Played against a deck that used Think Twice the other day. Was SUPER resilient to my use of Liliana. Actually lost to it too. First time I've lost a best of 3 to a control deck in a long time. Though I've recently shifted my Abzan deck from a creature focus to a removal focus so that would likely explain it - low density of threats - control player has less to counter and therefore an easier time.
I prefer Esper over Jeskai simply because in esper you have MORE reactive answers if you need them. In Jeskai you have Lightning Bolt as 1 mana removal. In Esper you Path to Exile. You also have Dismember but what you really gain is a whole host of 2 mana options and the also slightly awkward Murderous Cut. It just gives you a greater number of options.
June 26, 2015 5:58 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #25
Jeskai also has Path. They also get Keranos, which might just be the biggest draw.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
Play some Dragonlord Ojutai. Attack with it.
Seriously though, Keranos is the hotness. You really should be playing him. 11 RW removal spells, 5-6 2-mana counters, 4 Electrolyze, 4 Cryptics, 2 Revs, 2 Wraths, 4 Snaps, 0-1 extra value spells of choice (Shadow, more cheap counters, Ajani, etc.), 26 lands.
June 22, 2015 11:28 p.m.