What would you do...
Modern forum
Posted on Dec. 21, 2015, 10:07 p.m. by Scouty
So my friend and I were talking about cards that could be banned/unbanned, and what modern would look like if certain powerhouse cards were banned, so I wanted to hear what others would do in these situations:
To the BGx players: what would you do if Tarmogoyf was banned? What about Liliana of the Veil?
To the blue players: what would you do if they banned Snapcaster Mage was banned? What about Cryptic Command?
To the Affinity players: what would you do if Arcbound Ravager was banned? How about if Cranial Plating got the axe?
To Amulet Bloom players: What would you do if Summer Bloom/Amulet of Vigor was banned? How about Primeval Titan?
I'd like to explain that all of these are completely hypothetical, and shouldn't be misconstrued as a "Banning speculation" thread. It's sort of akin to the discussion of "what would you do for the zombie apocalypse" kind of thing, meant to prod along a bit of discussion of somewhat outlandish circumstances and how you would plan to survive.
Also, I know the post is repetitive as heck, but it's just to direct the question to people of all sorts of playstyles.
I am aware of the stupidity of the question GlistenerAgent, but if you read the last bit, it's not meant to be serious in the slightest. Just a conversation topic I found entertaining.
December 21, 2015 10:12 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #4
So if blood moon got banned, instead of skred, I'd play probably blue tron, maybe mono black devotion.
I feel like the question is "what if your deck got banned". Birthing pod players already have the experience, but what if it happened to your best deck.
December 21, 2015 10:25 p.m.
Well, being an ex-pod player myself, I understand what is being asked here. That shit stung hard, so I moved to Junk. Also, it's worth mentioning that each question is if each separate card was banned, not both in conjunction being banned.
For example, if 'Goyf was banned, I would probably change it to Knight of the Reliquary, which is also a good card for the deck imo.
December 21, 2015 10:31 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #7
If Liliana of the Veil and Tarmogoyf were banned I'd start playing Legacy. I'd be happy welcoming Deathrite Shaman back into my deck.
I mean I love modern but you're talking about banning 1000$ worth of cards right there.
December 21, 2015 10:45 p.m.
If goyf was banned, Jund wouldn't exist. Junk probably would be alright, but it would still take a hit. If lili was banned, the decks would change a bit and end up less "sit there and let me murder your hand... kthnksbye" and would be more creature heavy. I honestly think they'd just replace her with Domri, at least for Jund. Junk might like the new Nissa as they play Souls.
If snapcaster mage was banned, well, blue would not be nearly as good, obviously. If cryptic command was banned, the world would go on as normal. The card is over rated, and easily replaced. Twin would be fine (Tarmo Twin would probably end up being better than UR, but both would be still easily playable), Scapeshift would probably just go GR and drop the blue, and American Control is already dead, so it would stay dead.
If acbound rav got the boot, affinity would be down one of it's powerhouses, but still clearly playable. The deck doesn't need ravager to kill you dead.
If bloom/amulet is banned, the deck crumbles and dies. Which, frankly, is why I sold mine a few weeks ago. If prime titan was banned, well, it won't be. But if it was, the deck would just stop being played as it would be a combo engine with no legitimate finisher.
December 21, 2015 11:37 p.m. Edited.
I got an idea! Lets ban the following cards: Island, Swamp, Forest, Plains and Mountain. I think thatll bring the game into balance. :P
Wotc like to ban enablers.. not the enabled. Nerf not obliterate.. Id like to see another 7-8 legitimate Tier-1.5'ish decks this year.. Not more of the same old shit. :( Getting bored.
December 22, 2015 2:26 a.m.
I agree with Apple, I'd just play Goyf and Lili in Legacy. I've always had a fascination with Shardless BUG anyway.
December 22, 2015 3:35 a.m.
I agree with that too actually. :3 Also, Ive long wished I could build Shardless. I love the cascade cards and Baleful Strix is a favorite.
December 22, 2015 4:40 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #12
I would rejoice at the chaos, confusion, and rogue deckbuilding that would ensue.
December 22, 2015 4:48 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #13
If blue was left alone I would rejoice. It always irks me that a pure form of Control doesn't exist in Modern.
December 22, 2015 9:25 a.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #14
If GOYF was banned many players would be furious for GOYF is used in virtually dozens of decks across modern for his raw power. But if he got banned as a jund player I would most likely substitute him with abbot of the feral keep for the fact it's a 2/1 prowess with potential card draw (not always gonna want that card ir exiles).
If lili got banned jund probally bring back Blightning for card disruption. Junk might change her into Painful Truths.
If snap and cryptic were banned then nothing would really change except blue decks be forced to run more counter spells than their snapcaster free spells.
If ravanger got banned then affinity as is stated lost its pillar but still functions well with out it. Probally would change ravanger into something like Ghostfire Blade to help give their creatures power that still remain
December 22, 2015 10:39 a.m.
CanadianShinobi Is there some reason Grixis Control doesn't count?
December 23, 2015 7:25 a.m.
affinity would still easily truck along even with arcbound banned. not so much with plating
December 23, 2015 7:30 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #17
awphutt I've never played Grixis Control, but people keep describing it as a pseudo midrange deck. I'm interested in a deck along the lines of Legacy's Miracles. Answers for everything and completely shutting my opponent down until I draw into my win.
December 23, 2015 10:37 a.m.
CanadianShinobi If you've never played it, ruling it out as being a control deck doesn't seem hugely productive.
You want to lock people out, you can always do what I do. Just play Lantern Control.
December 23, 2015 10:44 a.m.
Grixis control isn't control, it's midrange. You've got kill spells, minimal draw, hand disruption, and big ass creatures.
December 23, 2015 4:59 p.m.
kyuuri117 Draw isn't quite needed quite as much when your deck is just entirely 2 for 1s. It's not draw-go control, but it hasn't got a large enough threat base to be considered midrange.
December 23, 2015 5:17 p.m.
Jund run's 10-12 threats and is considered midrange, what makes grixis so special that the same rules don't apply?
December 23, 2015 5:20 p.m. Edited.
The fact that Grixis in fact doesn't run 10-12 threats?
For the record, Snapcaster Mage doesn't count as a threat.
December 23, 2015 5:29 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
It's midrange in the same way BG/x is midrange. Capable of playing both a control and aggro game. The decks are incredibly similar.
December 23, 2015 5:30 p.m.
Snapcaster mage does, in fact, count as a threat when you're deck is built to strip your opponents threats from their hand or kill them immediately.
December 23, 2015 5:30 p.m. Edited.
Snapcaster isn't a threat. Goyf is a threat, Tasigur is a threat, Scooze is a threat. These are all creatures that end the game within like 3-4 turns. Snapcaster is a 7-8 turn clock, accounting for the fetching and shocking that happens.
December 23, 2015 5:33 p.m.
The deck is build specifically to make snapcaster a threat, because it's build to make sure that your opponent doesn't do anything. Sure, it's a backup to tasigur or angler or whatever you're using as your number one finisher, but it's there to end the game if needed.
If you specifically wanted value cards, you'd be building your deck to take advantage of cards with flashback. Instead, you use snapcaster because he provides a body that can block or end the game, which makes him a threat. You've clearly never played against american control if you think otherwise.
December 23, 2015 5:38 p.m.
The deck isn't built specifically to make snapcaster a threat, because that's incredibly stupid. You play Snapcaster because it's such a hugely powerful card, it's basically always a 2 for 1, or even better with stuff like Rise/Fall and Kolaghan's Command.
Literally no one plays snapcaster because he provides a body. If you think a 2/1 for 2 is in any way playable in Modern I can't help you. I have played against American Control, and with it, many times. Accusations like that while claiming snapcaster is played because he provides a body really makes it seem like you're utterly clueless.
And just on the subject of UWR Control, by your logic, considering it ran 4 Snapcaster Mage, 4 Celestial Colonnade, 2 Ajani Vengeant and maybe 1 Vendilion Clique, your definition makes it midrange, with it sitting at the apparently requisite 10-12 threats.
December 23, 2015 5:47 p.m.
Lol ok. I obviously wasn't stating that snapcaster is only played because of his 2/1 body. Don't be ignorant. I am however saying that the 2/1 body is not at all irrelevant.
You know what wins games in twin mirrors? It sure as hell isn't the splinter twin enchantment. It's a couple hits from a pestermite or exarch, but most of the work is done with snapcaster buying back bolt, and snapcaster beatdowns.
You know what eats a terminate or a path to exile when you're piloting grixis control? Tasigur or the fish. You know what actually gets there and wins? Snapcaster beats and lightning bolt.
As far as american control is concerned, no one plays ajani main board. Playing a full 4 colonnade's is now considered poor, and a lot don't even play a clique main.
Stop being ignorant and arguing just to argue. The 2/1 body on snapcaster makes a big difference. If you don't believe me, go proxy up some fake "1U Instant: Target Instant or Sorcery spell in your graveyard gains Flashback until end of turn" and replace your snaps with them and see how it plays out.
December 23, 2015 5:54 p.m. Edited.
Or "1U creature, 0/0", so it's not hit by dispel or negate, but dies immediately. Whatever. The body is important and wins a hell of a lot more games than you're giving it credit for.
December 23, 2015 5:56 p.m.
"I obviously wasn't stating that snapcaster is only played because of his 2/1 body. "
"you use snapcaster because he provides a body"
I'm not being ignorant (and that's not what that means), I'm just going by what you said.
Control mirrors barely happen in any format. Taking that as your only evidence for something being a threat isn't really relevant.
No one plays Ajani mainboard because UWR Control isn't a thing anymore. When it was a thing, they did.
I'm still not being ignorant (and that's still not what that means), and me saying snapcaster doesn't count as a threat doesn't mean I'm saying a Snapcaster without the body is better, stop putting words into my mouth.
December 23, 2015 6 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #32
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11159&d=263474&f=MO
U/Wr isn't completely dead :)
GlistenerAgent says... #2
The question is pretty stupid. If decks get their most important cards banned, they will be much worse than before and likely take a hit as far as popularity goes.
Jund would find other cards to play (additional removal, four-drops, etc.), blue decks might use JVP and possibly Logic Knot or additional Electrolyzes or whatever. Affinity would feel real bad, and Bloom would feel real bad.
December 21, 2015 10:09 p.m.