Which Twin Build is Better
Modern forum
Posted on Sept. 4, 2015, 7:57 p.m. by InnerFlame
I'm working on twin right now and I was just wondering which twin build is performing best right now...as in Grixis(Evil) Twin or UR twin that runs green in the sideboard for Spellskite.
My meta is pretty aggro if you want to know anything about that. Affinity, Burn, BGx, Bogles, Hatebear, Infect, Gifts, and other Twin is what I'd usually see on Friday night.
InnerFlame says... #3
Yeah I figured that the discard was a huge advantage VampireArmy. I'm looking at grixis builds right now and am really struggling to find a build that I like as far as ratios of cards go.
September 4, 2015 8:09 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #4
Test as you go. I would suggest proxy testing until you find your preference
September 4, 2015 8:13 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #7
lol Tasigur is bae ChiefBell. Is there really a distinct advantage to either running him in the sideboard game 1 with cliques in or not running cliques and running him in the main game 1?
September 4, 2015 8:21 p.m.
I don't play twin. Sorry. I can't answer specifics.
September 4, 2015 8:27 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #9
It's alright ChiefBell. What do you think about that VampireArmy?
September 4, 2015 8:30 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
I play grixis delver and he's been fantastic there. It's kind of like playing goyf but having an ability at times to ask the opponent "would you like to give me card draw or an answer to your threats?"
September 4, 2015 8:34 p.m.
notamardybum says... #12
Sometimes you just win with a turn 2 tasigur...
September 4, 2015 9:06 p.m.
selesvyaloverer8 says... #13
tasigur is definitely a main board card. It lets the deck attack from so many angles, it's insane. Vendilion Clique is good out of the side or the main.
September 4, 2015 9:09 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #14
I play Twin! Here to help. Personally, I'm a big fan of UR Twin right now, Blood Moon is just a great card.
As far as advantages, I feel like UR and Grixis have equal game vs. aggro -- UR has a less painful manabase and a more consistent goldfish, but sometimes just landing Tasigur with Terminate backup is enough to stall into a kill.
As it happens, going Grixis is really better against the more controlling decks of the format -- think Abzan, Twin mirrors, and the Grixis Control lists going around. If you don't expect these, I'd go UR (gives you Anger of the Gods, Blood Moon, and Ancient Grudge). As for the Twin decks that might show up, pack 2-3 Spellskite (also good vs. Boggles and Path to Exile decks) and 2x Combust or Rending Volley and you're solid. Never try to combo first in the mirror.
For your meta, pack an additional Electrolyze over the 2nd Cryptic, and maybe lean on more Roasts post-sideboard.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.
September 4, 2015 10:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #15
Also, I hear Kolaghan's Command is the card that puts grixis twin over the top. Kill your Swiftspear and get back my Exarch? Seems good... Or kill + Discard.
September 4, 2015 10:24 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #16
@Ohthenoises UR can run Ancient Grudge, but against a few other matchups, yes -- not have Kommand is a bit of a loss.
September 4, 2015 10:31 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
TheAnnihilator I think it's more the fact that Kommand (clever btw) has 4 relevent modes for modern. Kills Snapcaster Mage, Monastery Swiftspear, etc, draw step discard, returning combo pieces/snappys, and ALSO grudge.
September 4, 2015 10:34 p.m.
Command is just pure advantage. Destroying something and returning a creature to hand is a net gain in resources versus the opponent. Forcing discard and destroying a creature is a net gain. Forcing discard and returning a creature from your GY is also a net gain. Like it's almost impossible to cast that spell and feel bad haha.
September 4, 2015 10:39 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #20
Grixis, It can play Moon and there is currently no reason to not play Kolaghans Command, As others have already stated the card is just too much value.
Grixis just has better match ups across the board.
September 4, 2015 11:16 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #21
Well looks like I'm going grixis lol. Thanks a lot to all of you. You all have helped a lot, a few of you on multiple questions over the past few days.
September 5, 2015 12:09 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #22
Keep in mind though, all of our dvice points you towards the (typically) more expensive build, so if budget is a constraint there is that factor too.
September 5, 2015 12:20 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #23
Yeah I've done the adding up and I'm pretty sure I can swing it.
September 5, 2015 12:30 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #24
is Inquisition of Kozilek good in the grixis build? I'm having trouble finding a place for them but they seem good in it.
September 5, 2015 12:31 a.m.
notamardybum says... #25
i think the grixis version is cheaper than the ur version. UR means you need scalding tarns instead of just polluted delta + blood stained mire. also means you probably play 3-4 cryptic command and a full 4 snapcaster mage + 1-2 vendilion clique. those are some expensive cards...
September 5, 2015 1:56 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #26
@notamardybum You're right about the Tarns (which Grixis Twin would ideally want to run anyways), but I'm not so sure that Grixis Twin runs 3-4 Cryptics -- I've always seen the standard 2x which is the same as in UR. As for A full set of Snaps, Grixis runs those too, just like UR.
The only major expense that UR has over Grixis is maybe an additional Vendilion Clique, because UR is slightly more likely to lean on two while Grixis has more incentive to cut one for other cards. But Grixis has to purchase extra shock lands, Kolaghan's Command, Terminate, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize.
The real thing that will make/break the price difference is Blood Moon. According to MTGTop8, UR most always plays Moon as a 2 of in the board, Grixis mostly does the same. So about the same expense there.
All in all, UR and Grixis may end up costing about the same, but if anything goes for a higher average price, my monies on Grixis (pun very much intended).
September 5, 2015 9:41 a.m.
InnerFlame says... #27
Comparing cost it depends if you get inquisition/thoughtseize or not. If you do than grixis is more. I do already have everything for UR right now so it would still end up being more money.
September 5, 2015 11:58 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #28
Not all twin lists run 2 Cryptic Commands and 4 Snapcaster Mages. If you look at the evolution of the deck, lists are actaully going to something more like 1 command and 3 snaps. Tasigur, the Golden Fang and snap compete for resources plus Kolaghan's Command can let you reuse snaps that have hit the yard. Cryptic is becoming less of a thing because of Cavern of Souls and things like AEther Vial and Eternal Witness.
Here is the list I'm running now and have been enjoying it a lot. YoungTasigurTwin
VampireArmy says... #2
Grixis seems better given that meta. You'll have a better removal package and access to discard
September 4, 2015 8:03 p.m.