Why is Jund more heavily played than Junk?
Modern forum
Posted on July 19, 2015, 12:10 a.m. by TheAnnihilator
I've played against both many times, and Junk is just superior in my experience. I mean, Lingering Souls and Path to Exile are just good magic cards, plus things like Stirring Wildwood and sideboard stuff.
Even the Jund players at my LGS changed to Junk!
So, why is everyone else on Jund?
I wonder the same sometimes. I've hears different reasonings for this or that, but it really.comes down to the player and what they feel.comfortable with. I play junk, but not typical junk. I've played jund, and enjoyed it(back with DRS and Bloodbraid).
But the one reason people love jund is lightning bolt. More versatile than path. So combine them both and play...Naya? Lol
July 19, 2015 12:32 a.m.
Terminate, Lightning Bolt, and Kolaghan's Command are incredibly powerful incentives to move to Jund. You're essentially ditching Siege Rhino and Lingering Souls for those cards. It's not a bad trade-off.
July 19, 2015 12:40 a.m. Edited.
The big reason right now is because of Kolaghan's Command. K-Command gives you so much value and lets you have a maindeck spell that interacts with many archetypes. Plus you also get access to Blood Moon for additional hate cards.
July 19, 2015 12:40 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #6
I've always liked Junk better. I want a straight B/G resurgence though... I
July 19, 2015 12:52 a.m.
JaceArveduin says... #7
I'm going to say Tarmogoyf and Abrupt Decay, Ancient Grudge, and possibly Choke.
Course, I'm a baddie, so I'll let others explain in more detail.
July 19, 2015 1:01 a.m.
selesvyaloverer8 says... #9
bolt is good, terminate is good, kolaghan's command is good, olivia voldaren is good. basically all of the reasons that grixis twin and control are played now are applicable here.
July 19, 2015 1:05 a.m.
Modern Junk (Abzan) is more top heavy, and Jund is more low to the ground. This can be seen in the card choices, things like Siege Rhino and Dark Confidant respectively. Like people have said, the meta has shifted back towards faster decks, and power cards like Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command provide a great advantage in this meta. This being said, Junk has a good matchup against Jund due to cards like Souls and Path, and is one of the only reasons why it is still being played at all, as a deck to counter a archetype sharply increasing in popularity. As a very relevant sidenote, the inclusion of Blackcleave Cliffs and other lower cost cards GREATLY helps in the burn matchup, making it actually winnable, albeit not easy, rather than the impossible matchup it is with Junk. Also, while Junk has Stirring Wildwood, Jund has Raging Ravine, which is much better in my opinion. Finally, Blood Moon and other things are nice out of the board in Jund, but Junk admittedly has better sideboard options, as white has the best sb hosers in modern.
TL;DR: Siege Rhino is too slow now, and Jund is a lean, mean killing machine.
July 19, 2015 2:04 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #11
Jund has a sleeker curve, and is a faster deck. People realised that Bob was still an amazing card, and you can't exactly play Bob with a heap of 3 and 4 drops in your deck. Jund basically gets so much value from every spell they play, and that strategy is very efficient and strong at beating practically everything except the decks that go over the top.
July 19, 2015 5:55 a.m.
notamardybum says... #12
Path to exile had the downside of giving your opponent a free land. With white junk has access to path, siege rhino, and lingering souls. All good cards, but jund has terminate, bolt, kolaghans command, and maybe Olivia voldaren
July 19, 2015 8:10 a.m.
To make it short: Kolaghan's Command is the main reason. Also because Lightning Bolt is preferable to Path most of the time.
July 19, 2015 9:05 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #14
DMR burn is far from unwinnable for junk. Siege Rhino and Kitchen Finks with discard and removal slow down burn A LOT.
Everyone has perfectly answered the question, so I have nothing to add.
July 19, 2015 9:23 a.m.
All of these answers are missing the point to some extent.
Firstly, the curves of jund and junk are almost identical - Lightning Bolt becomes Path to Exile, Kolaghan's Command becomes Lingering Souls, Siege Rhino becomes Huntmaster of the Fells Flip. Terminate is a nice optional extra that you'd reduce your Scavenging Oozes for. They (jund and junk) have the same average cmc and the same kind of options at each slot.
It's not about the numbers of 4 drops either. Jund plays Dark Confidant with Huntmaster of the Fells Flip and Olivia Voldaren. I've even seen Thundermaw Hellkite. Looking back in time BG decks used to play him with Phyrexian Obliterator. Similarly abzan plays Siege Rhino. So its not that either because jund is in a slightly worse position to abzan in terms of life loss from Dark Confidant.
It's not about the burn matchup either because white gives you a better matchup than red. Junk is far better against aggro than jund due to Timely Reinforcements, Kitchen Finks, and Leyline of Sanctity. You also have Siege Rhino in the main board. Jund has Feed the Clan and Kitchen Finks which are great but abzan has access to as well.
The two decks are extremely similar. So what is the reason?
You have to remember that Junk is a product of a specific time in moderns history. An era when affinity, burn, and delver made up at the very least 33% of the meta, and at most a whopping 50%. These are all very fast decks that punish life loss and have a somewhat easy time against 1-for-1 removal options. With the speed of games being high and removal options being not totally effective, the midrange deck shifted towards a creature beatdown and lifegain deck instead of a slow control deck with Dark Confidant. Junk was born.
What junk did so well was present creature blockers, often running up to 15 in the deck. These options were perfect against delver and affinity. Siege rhino alao gave lifegain against burn. White was favoured over red simply because spot removal was useless against burn, not great against delver due to counterspells and only situationally useful against affinity. A T2 scavenging ooze or goyf into a turn 3 liliana into a turn 4 rhino presented a brick wall against aggro. A turn 2 dark confidant into turn 3 liliana into a turn 4 huntmaster is less effective. Jund runs fewer creatures - it's more control orientated.
Furthermore you have to understand the effect that Treasure Cruise had on the format. An aggro deck refilling their hand for a single blue mana made spot removal like bolt useless. What's the point of removing one threat when they can draw into 3 more with ease? Control can't compete with that card advantage. Creatures can though. A turn 2 goyf could block infinite Young Pyromancers. It doesn't matter how many times the aggro player cruises, a goyf will always beat a pyromancer or a goblin guide etc.
So what's changed?
Aggro no longer has cruise so they've lost a major source of card advantage. This means slower control decks can come back. Spot removal can do well again because a 1-for-1 strategy is viable again. It's easier to play a deck like jund against a deck that can't just suddenly restock it's hand than it is against one thay can be like 'lol now I have 3 more cards and you have no lightning bolts left'. Whereas abzan just plays siege rhino as a brick wall and stops caring.
Delver and burn have died down a bit. This means that lifegain is slightly less important. White does lifegain better than red but now it's less necessary. Dark confidant can also come back because a bit of life loss no longer loses you 50% of your games haha.
Amulet bloom and tron are coming back. This is also significant because jund has Kolaghan's Command and an easier time with artifacts than white. Further, jund casts Fulminator Mage more easily than junk and has access to Blood Moon. Easy land destruction and artifact destruction makes those two matchups significantly nicer to play.
So overall abzan was designed to combat aggro. Every single thing it does is a 'lol no' to affinity, burn, and delver. It was necessary at the time. Now that aggro has died down jund can come back because it's decent against a whole load of other decks.
Abzan is a solution to a particular problem that existed a few months ago. Now that the meta has shifted jund is the best.
July 19, 2015 11:40 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #16
So my meta is basically Junk, and Grixis Control right now, with splashes of Twin (sometimes me, sometimes not) and an Elves player. Tron and Affinity almost never walk in the door. Is that why Junk is better than Jund at my meta -- the marginal improvement of the Bloom and Tron matches doesn't matter?
July 19, 2015 12:13 p.m.
Junk is better against control due to higher creature counts.
Both jund and junk and equally good against twin.
Elves is hard for both.
If you don't get matchups that require heavy 1-for-1 control then junk is better.
July 19, 2015 12:19 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #18
So my meta is basically Junk and Grixis Control right now, with splashes of Twin (sometimes me, sometimes not) and an Elves player. Tron and Affinity almost never walk in the door. Is that why Junk is better than Jund at my meta -- the marginal improvement of the Bloom and Tron matches doesn't matter?
July 19, 2015 12:59 p.m.
white gives acces to very good (imho) artifact/encahntment removal creatures too (for Abzan/Junk at least).
Qasali Pridemage
Kor Sanctifiers
I know these are slover, than red spells costing 
but they have bodies, this is important but often gets overlooked.
Combined with the fact that white adds lifegain, i believe they are playable and helpfull for Junk/Abzan
TheAnnihilator says... #2
Also, linking ChiefBell since this seems to be his kind of topic.
July 19, 2015 12:17 a.m.