Why was Bloodbraid Elf banned?
Modern forum
Posted on Sept. 18, 2013, 4:19 a.m. by DreamGoddessLindsey
I only came back to Magic after 15 years in Dragon's Maze, but something baffles me. It doesn't affect me, as I don't have the card, but I'm curious nonetheless.
Why was Bloodbraid Elf banned? It gives you a free casting of a CMC 3 or less card, and was apparently the most-played Jund card in Modern. Still, I don't quite understand why they think this specific card made Jund unbeatable. Does anyone here have an idea?
Honestly, I feel like my Phyrexian Invasion would do well enough against Jund in Modern even if Bloodbraid Elf weren't banned. To me, it just seems like people weren't creative enough to overcome the card or something so it got banned. I wasn't around when it happened, though, so I'm asking here.
Is there something I'm not seeing about the card that makes it deserving of banned?
It's essentially a 3/2 haste with any removal, Tarmogoyf or Dark Confidant etc. stuck onto it for only 1 or 2 more mana.
September 18, 2013 4:43 a.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #4
I guess I just don't see how it's all that overpowered. It's four free castings and you don't get to pick which card is free. Erik Lauer's explanation doesn't really sound very good to me. It's basically "we banned the most played card from the winning decks".
Ah well.
September 18, 2013 5:08 a.m.
smash10101 says... #5
i think the reason is because without it jund no longer was the only deck that could win modern tournaments and they wanted to diversify the field. Jund still exists, but it's more balanced with the rest of the top tier decks
September 18, 2013 5:19 a.m.
Because of the raw power that cascading into a Liliana of the Veil could bring.. Or into a Tarmogoyf ... Or into a Dark Confidant .
It doesn't matter that you don't get to choose when all your options are powerful as hell.
September 18, 2013 5:23 a.m.
It's just really efficient. The worst card it could cascade into would probably be Lightning Bolt , Thoughtseize or Deathrite Shaman . TS is suboptimal turn 4, but shaman and bolt are still great utility cards lategame, so it's really efficient. Try playing against one. They're really annoying. Also, if they counter it, you still get the cascaded spell.
September 18, 2013 5:28 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #8
The only thing I'm getting from this topic is "I've never with, or against, Jund running BBE". The card is insane, if you can't see why you're bad.
September 18, 2013 5:36 a.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #9
TurboFagoot so I come here wondering about this and get insults and get called bad.
Kiss my rear, troll.
September 18, 2013 5:58 a.m.
It can also come down on turn three off of Deathrite Shaman mana, then cascade into Abrupt Decay , Maelstrom Pulse ], etc. etc. as KingSorin said. It's just raw card advantage and can set up two (or even three) for ones. Good luck with your infect deck when Bloodbraid Elf cascades into Liliana of the Veil and forces you to sacrifice your Glistener Elf .
September 18, 2013 5:59 a.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #11
Well I'm not saying Bloodbraid Elf isn't a good card. I just don't know if I consider it "banworthy".
September 18, 2013 6:04 a.m.
It was just the best card in the deck, because it was, essentially, every card in the deck. It was a constant 2 for 1, which a lot of decks couldn't handle due to sheer card advantage. By banning Bloodbraid Elf, Jund could no longer get those 2 for 1s which brought its overall powerlevel down.
September 18, 2013 6:21 a.m.
It was the only card seen in Every Jund deck but not found anywhere else, so to offset every single event from having 4-5 Jund decks in the top 8 they banned in hopes of turning players on to other archetypes while not hurting any others. Jund players switched over to Huntmaster to be their 4 drop but lost the cascade, which is sick in a modern deck with 4 at the top of the curve.
September 18, 2013 6:58 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #14
You're failing to grasp how good it is though. Again, the card is nothing but insane. It, and it's better cousin Shardless Agent, have decks built around them in Legacy/Vintage. Winning decks.
You need to understand card advantage to really get this.
You cast BBE and cascade into something else. Ok. 2 cards.
You hit Liliana, they discard a card, you're up 3. (Well technically not. You discarded a card as well, sitting you back at 2. But the moment you edict, or they divert a resource to Lili, you're up)
Also, anyone who insults you isn't a "troll". Being a troll isn't being rude, they're two different things.
You hit Blightning, they discard 2, you're up 4.
You hit Abrupt Decay or any removal, destroy one of their permanents, you're up 3.
It's just insane! Then to get a 3/2 haster on top of this? Damn.
September 18, 2013 7:01 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #15
For the same reason why they just banned Cloudpost in pauper - because the whole format was starting to revolve around that one card.
September 18, 2013 9 a.m.
They banned BBE because Wizards doesn't like stagnant formats and that's what modern had become with everyone either running Jund or building to beat Jund. Wizards banned BBE to try and sway people away from Jund (without destroying the archetype) and BBE was simply the best ban choice to this end.
September 18, 2013 9:27 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #17
not to mention cards like Living End and Wheel of Fate that could be cast off of the cascade for free...
September 18, 2013 9:46 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #18
Cascade was just a broken mechanic to begin with, as for some reason the designers and developers didn't really get how players would actually start building their decks to get the best use out of it.
Bloodbraid Elf is the strongest of all the Cascade cards because you get the best bonus from it. That is, every Cascade card says "X : Tutor up and cast a spell costing X or less, then get this neat thing for 1 more mana". For Bloodbraid Elf, the neat thing for 1 more mana is a 3/2 creature with haste, which is insane. The ban list for Modern isn't just for broken stuff, but also cards that are really pushing "a little too good" right up to the line where they would start falling into being truly broken (Wild Nacatl is another good example of this). It's a way to keep the format under control, and it seems to be working.
September 18, 2013 9:52 a.m.
Bloodbraid Elf got banned not because it stood up to cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor but because of what deck it was commonly run in. It's a decent enough card, but WOTC wanted to take some of the gas out of Jund, which was dominating, without hitting other decks with collateral damage. Sure, Jund would be weaker without Lightning Bolt , Dark Confidant or Tarmogoyf , but so would a lot of decks. Where as Bloodbraid Elf was basically only being run in Jund.
September 18, 2013 10:15 a.m.
It was dominating in modern jund, and I dont think WoTC like having 1 card do that much for the format. So no everyone runs Huntmaster of the Fells Flip in its place.
September 18, 2013 10:25 a.m.
Jund's dominance was pretty miserable at the time. It needed something taken from it, and at least in Modern, WotC has tried to affect as few decks as possible with bannings that are directed at a certain deck.
BBE got it in part because it was a Jund-only card (no other decks were using it) and in part because it created such huge card advantage. A lot of people were pulling for Deathrite Shaman , but I think it stayed because other decks were running it that weren't so oppressive.
September 18, 2013 10:46 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #23
Kinda off topic, kinda on topic: Could you imagine what the format would look like if the colored artifact lands were legal?
September 18, 2013 10:47 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #24
Ravager Affinity as far as the eye can see. Next question?
September 18, 2013 10:54 a.m.
oh god, Instant turn one metalcraft decks would have metal craft even easier. it would be scary
September 18, 2013 10:56 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #27
To address your point "my Phyrexian Invasion would do well enough against Jund in Modern even if Bloodbraid Elf weren't banned"
That's the other half of why it was banned; it had become play Bloodbraid Elf or run answers, and the answers that were being demanded just couldn't stand up to it without being completely dead against the rest of the field. Yeah, Mindbreak Trap or Double Negative could stop it, an overloaded Counterflux could stop it now. You can wrath all day after it hits the board but it's already devastated your field/hand.
I think Rhadamanthus made the best point so far. Think of the 3/2 hasty token as the bonus, and what you get with the flip as the main spell. Now build your deck in a way that can take advantage of both at the same time and see what can keep up. Not much.
September 18, 2013 11:14 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #28
On the Artifact lands point:We already saw that. MtG players dropped by 50%
September 18, 2013 12:06 p.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #29
I guess I would have just had to have been there to see it perhaps. Thanks for most of the replies (except that rude one).
Could artifact lands be played as artifacts or something? I didn't quite understand why they were banned either. I don't know anything about "Ravager Affinity" or affinity decks in general. It's a word I've heard and not much else. No one runs decks like that around my meta.
In my meta, right now the big things to run are Azorius with Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Vintage/Legacy, Red Deck Wins (except against my infect deck) in Modern, and Rakdos, Boros with Boros Reckoner , or Hydras in Standard.
September 18, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #30
Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto Modern
Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto Legacy
It's not ravager affinity, it's Tezzeret afinity but they are similar enough where you get the point.
September 18, 2013 4:18 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #31
Man, my meta is all g/b/x all the time, if I need a break from getting Thoughtseize d I should try to find your store :P
As for for artifact lands...... They are artifacts and lands... so they can be tapped for mana and count towards the number of artifacts you control....
September 18, 2013 4:53 p.m.
Here is Aaron Forsythe's article on why they chose to ban the artifact lands. This article talks about the 2004 Regionals, which was dominated by Ravager Affinity.
So what kind of plays does Affinity make with artifact lands? Consider this starting hand:
- Vault of Whispers
- Welding Jar
- Ornithopter
- Tooth of Chiss-Goria
- Frogmite
- Disciple of the Vault
- Darksteel Citadel
Turn one: play Vault of Whispers , then Welding Jar , Ornithopter , Tooth of Chiss-Goria , Frogmite , tap Vault of Whispers , play Disciple of the Vault . You're now sitting with four power on turn one. If you're opponent tries to kill Frogmite , you can just sac Welding Jar , regenerate, and make them lose one life. If you draw a Myr Enforcer , Skullclamp , or Arcbound Ravager , you'll be able to play them to full effect. Tarmogoyf is already good as a 2/3 or 3/4 on turn two, but a full-on 4/4? Or a 7/7 Arcbound Ravager that made you lose 6 life?
What made openings like that possible was the artifact lands. Without them, the deck is much more fair and doesn't kill you on turn three.
September 18, 2013 6:02 p.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #33
Whoa, interesting combo there. I can see why that ban was made now. You get too much out of them.
JWiley129 says... #2
Because you can build a deck where Bloodbraid Elf is the top of your curve, and thus your entire deck is free. Also WotC didn't like that Jund was the only build that was winning Pro Tours and Gran Prix's. Here's the article where Erik Lauer explains the bannings http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/232
September 18, 2013 4:34 a.m.