Will Monastery Mentor dethrone Young Pyromancer?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 2, 2015, 4:21 a.m. by indianpancake
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/582870-monastery-mentor#c1
The answer is simple - one more mana is too much. Also, the color is wrong, it will require splashes or a different shell altogether. Overall, a card i will be happy to open and trade immediately at prerelease, since it is a dollar rare.
January 2, 2015 4:47 a.m.
It's not a dollar rare. Standard will absolutely love it. Modern wilol dabble with it. This is not bargain bin material it has very definite potential - that alone will make it above $5 for some time until it rotates out. Standard should keep it high
January 2, 2015 4:49 a.m.
It will be the Siege Rhino of Jeskai Tokens. But it will not see play in Modern, at least not in any of the existing decks.
January 2, 2015 6:30 a.m.
It will see play in my next modern deck -- I'll let you know how it goes. :)
January 2, 2015 9:20 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #7
I can definitely see it replacing Geist of Saint Traft, but not Peezy. Two mana is awesome.
January 2, 2015 9:40 a.m.
notamardybum says... #8
i remember when dig through time was a dollar rare
January 2, 2015 11:26 a.m.
KrosanTusker says... #9
I bought Dig Through Time when it was a dollar rare. Just exercising my bragging rights.
I guess Mentor could see play if Jeskai Tempo became a proper thing, but as has been said, it's not the most powerful or resilient thing to do with three mana.
January 2, 2015 11:38 a.m.
This will not replace Young Pyromancer because the color is wrong. The decks YP is good in don't run white.
However, this guy already has a shell to go into. He is perfect for BW tokens. He generates an extra token for each spell in the deck. I can see him as the logical replacement for Hero of Bladehold. Literally every other spell in the deck activates his token
January 2, 2015 2:34 p.m.
PreZchoICE1 says... #11
He is going to be the centerpiece of the new black white tokens in standard with sorin raise the alarm and triplicates
January 2, 2015 2:51 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #12
"This will not replace Young Pyromancer because the color is wrong. The decks YP is good in don't run white."
That can change.
January 2, 2015 2:55 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #13
Do you think this will make B/W tokens a competitive deck then, capriom85?
January 2, 2015 2:55 p.m.
I think you horribly underrate this card. In my playgroup we tinkered a bit with him already in a UWR Flash/Control shell against Top Tier decks like Rhino Pod, Scapeshift, Abzan Midrange and U/R Delver. He was insane. He's a totally "must-handle". Even more than peezy. If my friend untapped with this guy in play it was basically over. He countered anything I played, pathed my Goyf, got 2 Tokens out of the deal, Untapped burned my face with Bolt Snap Bolt and hit me for 10 in the face.
And honestly "dies to removal" never was a good criteria to judge the power-level of a creature...
January 2, 2015 3:06 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
I have to agree with you. I'd say that Jeskai Delver will be the way to go in Modern, but I'm not sure what to cut from the creature base. 4 Delver of Secrets Flip and 4 Young Pyromancer are a guarantee, but I'm not sure yet if I want 4 Monastery Mentor, 4 Monastery Swiftspear or the two together. Thoughts?
January 2, 2015 3:11 p.m.
I say cut the Delver. He wasn't very impressive lately. My go-to would be: 4 Peezy, 4 Swifty, 4 Dementor, 2 Snappy, rest is cantrips/burnspells. Also going into jeskai gives you way better removal against big threats like Rhino or Goyf.
January 2, 2015 3:17 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #18
Here's a preliminary list I've thrown together. Currently the white is only for the Mentor, but finding room for Path to Exile and Lightning Helix is certainly within reason.
January 2, 2015 3:33 p.m.
Wild xzzane used "explanation"! I doubt this will make an impact in modern tokens. The 3 cmc is one of the hardest spots to fill when you consider Lingering Souls and Spectral Procession are both mandatory for the deck. If he's played any later than turn 3 Hero of Bladehold usually makes for a better finisher as well, if she survives. I have yet to test her out personally, mind you, but at the moment I don't see it seeing play long term in tokens. I do expect to see people at least trying her out though.
January 2, 2015 3:34 p.m.
Putrefy - You misinterpret my answer to the question. The question is 'Will monastery mentor dethrone young pyromancer?'
My answer is - in tempo decks and existing builds no. In new builds, sure.
In decks like Jeskai control (which is what you described testing him in) then sure. But that's a deck that didn't normally run young pyromancer, it's something completely different. Therefore this card would not dethrone young pyromancer because the pyromancer was never in that deck!
In decks like Jeskai tempo no. I don't see him being useful in a delver-esque shell. Not in an aggro incarnation.
As I said I don't see him in existing delver shells but I DO see him in new shells. I think slower control decks might want him but these do not exist at the moment in the current meta
January 2, 2015 4:04 p.m.
Putrefy - And yes, dies to removal is super important to consider when your creature costs three times as much as the removal. You play this T3, and they respond by bolting it they then have 2 mana left over to pull ahead or do whatever they want to do to swing the game in their favour. Being able to remove stuff cheaply and easily when the opponent taps out for it is like casting a mini Time Walk
January 2, 2015 4:14 p.m.
It can change for sure, GlistenerAgent. We haven't seen a RW list yet, though, so for the moment it's true.
KrosanTusker, BW tokens is a competitive deck in Modern right now. It has fantastic match ups against many of the top tier decks running around right now. I have had great success with it. I believe Monastery Mentor will make it better, but there isn't anything nothing wrong with it now.
January 2, 2015 4:26 p.m.
For those talking about Jeskai Delver, I wouldn't cut Delver for this guy. T1 Delver into T2 turn Delver and Swiftspear with a cantrip or Bolt seems good to me in any format.
As for Jeskai Delver at all...not sure this guy changes it enough. That deck has a curve of 2 for a good reason. This guy at 3 gives up tempo and sets you back a little. I know his tokens are bigger, but I think he will shine more in BW Tokens. It seems to me that he was made to fill a gap here.
January 2, 2015 4:46 p.m.
I disagree about him fitting in b/w tokens. He doesn't fit in the curve as well as I would like (Spectral Procession and Lingering Souls take the 3 cmc position in the curve), and if you want a creature finisher I believe bladehold to be superior. The thing about b/w tokens is that no one wants to waste a Path to Exile on a 2/2 spirit. So they save it for the heavy hitters. That's why I swapped out my Hero of Bladehold a while back. I don't think b/w tokens will be changed in the long run from this. I do expect to see a fair bit of experimentation on b/w tokens with it in the short run though.
January 2, 2015 5:02 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #25
Well, okay capriom85. Lots of decks are competitive in Modern. I meant more top-tier, not necessarily quite Birthing Pod-level competitive, but more high-profile than it is now.
January 2, 2015 5:55 p.m.
KrosanTusker, I feel you may have misunderstood my response. My tokens build hangs in there with many top decks and I feel this is a great addition to the build regardless of what is competing for the 3 cmc slot. He is a powerhouse and does more work than Hero and yes I believe it can help make tokens top tier.
I apologize to anyone who is offended but it's my opinion and many people shared it at my local LGS tonight, one being a former pro tour player who went as far as to say that it looks like an automatic 3 to 4 of in BW tokens.
This card is insane.
January 2, 2015 10:42 p.m.
I agree that it's a very good card, but I think it fits better in a control shell than a b/w token shell. I play b/w tokens competitively as well, trust me. I believe the difference is that monastery mentor does more long term work, while hero does more within a turn. The game typically ends the turn hero can attack. Tokens has always been more of an aggro styled deck, and I think monastery mentor will fit best in control shells that can make optimal use of him. I'm certainly not offended, I enjoy debating about b/w tokens. If I am wrong, I will openly admit to it. But as it stands, I don't believe it to have a place in b/w tokens. Only time will tell.
January 2, 2015 11:24 p.m.
xzzane, can you link your BW token build? I'd like to check it out.
January 3, 2015 12:50 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #29
Swarm and Conquer V 2.0 Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 204 | 42 COMMENTS | 31553 VIEWS Top 8: 01/27It's rather similar to yours. Uncanny, in fact.
January 3, 2015 1:06 p.m.
Real close... Sword of Fire and Ice? Just for the card draw? That is what I have found severely lacking in mine.
January 3, 2015 1:21 p.m.
The card draw is part of it. It's an excellent late game addition. It makes my tokens turn into threats, especially when boosted by Elspeth.
January 3, 2015 2:42 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #33
Equipments ...
0 cmc equipments are noncreatures.
I should go mono-white now, test the waters again, away from Jeskai Ascendancy for a Conqueror's Pledge on legs.
January 3, 2015 10:11 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #34
xzzane, ChiefBell, aeonstoremyliver, GlistenerAgent
What say you in putting Monastery Mentor in my Kor Legions deck?
January 3, 2015 10:22 p.m.
Replace Jeskai Ascendency for Monastery Mentor...I like it. I like it a lot. I'm all for it. Easier to cast too.
January 3, 2015 11:19 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #36
Holy crap the tokens! You could make all the TOKENS!
January 4, 2015 9:54 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #37
If I am to put in Monastery Mentor, I would require Retract as well.
ChiefBell says... #2
Not necessarily. 3 reasons:
Young pyromancer is in red which is more useful for the decks that need him/her. Red gives access to lightning bolt and all kinds of other things that aggro decks want - they play well together. White does not give you access to many cards conducive to that strategy. Most aggro decks wouldn't normally include white at all.
This new guy costs 3 mana and still dies to bolt even after he's been pumped up one time. Losing a 3 mana creature to a 1 mana removal spell is painful.
Finally - many decks that center on non creature spells want to win the game as soon as possible. Spending 3 mana on a creature is way too much of a tempo hit to consider. 3 mana to boros burn is equivalent to 9 damage - that's half the game to them! They should be winning on that turn, not casting a creature. 3 mana to delver is also a large amount to spend on something that doesn't impact the board immediately. Due to treasure cruise they really don't like pricy things that can't be chucked into the graveyard. They even removed electrolyze due to it being slow and that spell was an all star for a very long time.
My verdict: very good but will require a new shell. I don't see him in an existing shell.
January 2, 2015 4:35 a.m.