Converting from Modern to Pioneer
Pioneer forum
Posted on March 20, 2023, 7:35 a.m. by Unlife
I've been playing round with this modern deck for a while now:
I made the decision to attempt a conversion over to pioneer. The core of the deck, and the manabase is basically the same, but I'm looking for advice on where to go with some of the support cards. For example, I can turn Bone Shards into Lightning Axe, but I haven't found a good replacement for damantion yet. I'm also running Talisman of Indulgence and Mind Stone for ramp, but there doesn't seem to be any two mana rocks that would slot into their place. Would it be better to just increase removal, or try some three mana rocks instead?
Thanks in advance.
I agree with Argy
I personally have tried to convert modern established decks over into pioneer like zoo and such... its really easy to make a deck "Pioneer Legal" but completely different making it "Pioneer viable"... there are so many things in pioneer that are really good that you wouldn't even give a second look at in Modern... Red Deck Wins is a great example of this... it hold the same principles and deck namesake in both formats but look nothing alike.
March 20, 2023 9:06 a.m.
To be a little bit more specific, you have a lot of fetch lands in your current build. None of those are Pioneer legal.
Once those are all taken out, you are now left with the problem of fixing your colours.
A lot of your creatures cost a lot of mana. You don't have time to get them out in Pioneer, unless you are playing a lot of Control cards. Which you aren't.
Black needs 4x Thoughtseize and 4x Fatal Push in Pioneer. I would also say that should run 3-4x Murderous Rider, across the Main and Sideboards.
There is no Lightning Bolt in Pioneer.
MindStone is out, so you lose that ramp, and that draw. 2x Talisman of Indulgence is also not Pioneer legal, so you lose another ramp outlet.
Just from that very quick look at your deck, I hope you can get some idea of what I was saying above.
If you want to see a Pioneer netdeck for Rakdos midrange, there is one here:
Rakdos Midrange by Brandon Bryant
I prefer to build my own decks, and I can help you a bit, if you still want to try.
It's going to take a long time, because you will need to learn the meta as you build, and you will need a LOT of play testing.
I estimate it will take about 100 hours to build an original brew, that can win a couple of matches, in an FNM environment.
March 20, 2023 12:34 p.m.
Sorry, I see above that you already realised you couldn't use your mana rocks in Pioneer.
You asked about replacements, but we just don't use mana rocks in Pioneer. The format has grown quite fast.
March 20, 2023 12:37 p.m.
A mana rock that has seen competitive play and i still use would be Springleaf Drum... however it is very fringe if not obsoleted in artifact aggro decks.
I still personally still cling onto the old way to play artifact aggro using Springleaf Drum and Ensoul Artifact but both cards have fallen out of favor for the strategy for being competitive... but thats just something I know/accept when I play my deck at FNM.... still gets wins but is nothing like it used to be.
March 20, 2023 1:12 p.m.
Thank you both for the advice, but I'll probably make the less advised choice to continuing down this path. I don't mind if it's towards the middle of the pack, it's mostly just for playing around between matches at FNM.
Argy, based on the midrange decklist you linked, I think it may be better to lean towards more direct removal, especially with the loss of bolt. I'd had LotV in the original modern build as well, so I can probably move some back into the in in place of some other losses. The only creature card I really need to cast is Mishra, Tamer of Mak Fawa, and maybe prototyping Phyrexian Fleshgorger occasionally. Everything else is just dumped and reanimated later.
Icbrgr, I'd looked at Springleaf Drum, but I just don't play enough creatures.
March 20, 2023 10:06 p.m.
I still use Ensoul Artifact in a mono blue Artifacts Pioneer deck, which does quite well.
Usually makes the top 4.
It is an original brew, though, so it doesn't stick to as many rules.
March 21, 2023 1:32 a.m.
Ensoul Artifact can get away with wins just as much as any other deck. I feel the term "Pioneer Viable" is very loose at the moment, remember Izzet Creativity was Tier D to Off-Meta before it won.
Have fun and good luck building your brew for Rakdos. It's refreshing to see a deck with that doesn't look the same as the rest.
Argy says... #2
I personally think it would be better to either netdeck, or build a Pioneer deck from scratch.
Since you don't know the Pioneer meta, you don't yet know what threats to build around.
I've seen Modern players attempt the Pioneer format, and get very frustrated that they don't have access to certain Modern cards.
I have seen Standard decks easily modified to be more Pioneer ready, but that gives you MORE cards to build with, rather than less.
Case in point, there's no clear replacement for Damnation
March 20, 2023 8:29 a.m. Edited.