Pioneer meta
Pioneer forum
Posted on Jan. 5, 2020, 12:45 p.m. by Argy
It seems that after the last bans Control is becoming very dominant.
Izzet Phoenix is still strong. It has probably been the most consistent deck that hasn't been effected by bans.
Mono black Aggro decks are also still doing well.
A new deck doing the rounds is mono blue Tempo, and that has a new tool in its belt after Theros Beyond Death is released. The new Thassa god will be able to flicker Master of Waves once a turn FOR NO COST.
There has been a lot of talk lately about an infinite combo which will become viable once Theros Beyond Death drops.
In case you haven't heard of it, it combines the new Heliod god with Walking Ballista
The Ballista must start with two +1/+1 counters on it.
Give it Lifelink with Heliod, then remove a counter to deal damage to your opponent, which will add a counter, remove that counter to deal damage, which will add a counter ad infinitum.
People think that Wizards may ban Walking Ballista if the combo becomes too popular.
My guess is that it will, due to the popularity of the former Felidar Guardian / Saheeli Rai infinite combo in Pioneer, which saw Felidar Guardian banned.
If you have any thoughts on the current or upcoming meta, feel free to share them.
I concur on what you are seeing. No one in my LGS is playing Phoenix, however. I see a lot out of burn decks and a lot of black. I have two RBu controls, too. It’s punishing, and I will no lkb er even try to play mono blue devotion because of it, especially when the 4 mana red wipe is released. I am currently brewing an Esper ck tool build that look very well suited both before and after Beyond Death releases.
Personally I will not being playing the Heliod combo in pioneer. It will likely see a ban in the form of Ballista. I will play it in my modern Martyr Life, though, where it will shine.
January 5, 2020 1:22 p.m.
At my local lgs we have a healthy variety of decks that show up frequently enough that it doesnt feel as tho one deck is dominating the scene. We have most of the decks that have been posted above minus Mono U, but also I have found a lot of people on Soulflayer and Hardened Scales recently. I play Abzan Midrange now that oko is banned and slamming siege rhino is my form of 'fun' magic. The only card I could see potentially being removed from the format at this time is Dig Through Time, and even that is in a pretty safe spot with the only thing really showing red flags is the lotus field combo decks.
January 5, 2020 3:35 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #6
flluid another Abzan midrange!! Hell yeah! We should compare lists. Mine is on my profile, do you have yours on here?
January 5, 2020 4:16 p.m. Edited.
Pioneer is just now gathering some steam at my LGS. Decks I've seen so far include ...
- Jeskai Control
- Mono-G Ramp
- BW Zombie Rally
- UW Control
- UR Emerge
- Jeskai Goodstuff (feat. Fires of Invention and a bunch of Planeswalkers)
- UW Spirits
- Mardu Aggro (like Mono-B Aggro, but splashing for Mardu Ascendency)
FWIW, I plan to sleeve up either RG Electrostatic Pummeler or RG Goodstuff (feat. Collected Company ).
January 6, 2020 1:31 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #8
At my LGS I’ve seen the following:
R/G Aggro
U/W Control
U/B Control
Mono Red Aggro
Mono Black Aggro
Mono Green Devotion/Ramp
U/R Phoenix
Lotus Field Combo
U/W Spirits
U/R Emerge (the deck I play)
The main thing that I’ve noticed...
With the exception of the mono colored decks, every blue deck is running Dig Through Time and the Izzet Phoenix is running Treasure Cruise .
My input on this matter is that Dig Through Time is probably the more “unfair” card of the 2 and could quite possibly find its way into the ban conversation.
As for the Heliod+ Walking Ballista combo...I foresee it getting banned but instead of Ballista getting the hammer, I can see Heliod getting it. My reasons...Banning Ballista would hurt the Green Ramp deck and Hardened Scales deck. I don’t see nuking 3 decks as a good thing. I would see Heliod being the option to ban.
And in all honesty, Saheeli should have been the one banned, not Felidar. Felidar would still see play, even if it was fringe. There’s no reason to play Saheeli on its own.
January 6, 2020 4:30 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #9
Mono G gets my vote for "least fun deck to play against." Cast triggers are just so demoralizing, especially with Sanctum being a thing. I don't think you can even really ban a card to cripple it, though.
January 6, 2020 10:43 a.m.
Magnanimous says... #10
UpperDeckerTaco you need to keep in mind that when Wizards bans cards, they want the new sets to sell so they will ban the older cards, look at what happened with Hogaak.
Wizards will almost certainly ban Walking Ballista over Heliod if the combo becomes oppressive.
January 6, 2020 12:50 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #11
Magnanimous You say that, but I have faith that they will make the "smarter" play in banning Heliod instead BECAUSE of the Hogaak debacle. Where, short of banning Hogaak itself wasn't enough.
Although, I can see your point in the mindset that Ballista is a far more abusable card to have to worry about in the future.
January 6, 2020 6:41 p.m.
They can't make any more sales out of Ballista
In the end it all seems to come down to that.
January 7, 2020 12:49 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #13
Also, to the individual who suggested the new Thassa and Master of Waves synergy, it is actually a “non-bo”. The original tokens you’d get would die by the state based effect of Master leaving the battlefield. Unless you had 2 Masters in play.
And with Kozilek's Return being played, it gets around the whole “pro-red” thing.
January 7, 2020 1:10 a.m. Edited.
I thought that as well, but apparently state based actions aren't checked until Master of Waves is back on the field.
Quite a few judges confirmed this in the Facebook Pioneer group.
From the FB topic:
"State based actions are not checked until the ability finishes resolving. So there is never a time to kill them before Master of Waves is back on the field, and his trigger goes on the stack to make more Elementals.
January 7, 2020 1:36 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #15
Argy I was told by several judges, that once a creature's toughness is "Zero" or less, no matter what abilities or triggers or spells are resolving, as a state based effect, the creature dies...? But then again, I thought if I remember correctly, Enter the God-Eternals is a perfect example of this, by being able to target the "amassed" zombie itself so it has a target for all of its modes...and the zombie would live...
I guess there definitely needs to be clarification on this sort of thing and within the judge community there needs to be some consistency and education taking place.
January 7, 2020 8:44 p.m.
I'm not a judge. I can only convey the information that judges in the FB Pioneer group have been discussing.
I'll ask a QnA here, so I can link to it.
January 8, 2020 3:18 a.m.
Here is the relevant information:
Daveslab2022 says... #2
U/w Control is going to stay the dominant Control deck, probably for the rest of Pioneer’s life. I don’t feel they will ban anything from it, because while it sucks to play against, it’s not dominating the meta. Looking at MTGO undefeated decks shows me that G/r ramp, Control, and various aggro decks (Phoenix, mono black, mono red, U/w Fliers) which is a fairly healthy spread.
I don’t personally think the Heliod Combo is consistent enough to be a truly competitive deck- but I’ve certainly been wrong before. If it does see play, and it exceeds my expectations, it will definitely get banned. (the mirror match seems absolutely atrocious, and I wouldn’t ever play the deck for that reason)
I’m personally waiting for a good midrange deck to find it’s place. It has to play black for Thoughtseize and similar effects, or else you can’t beat U/w, which is a midrange decks hardest matchup. I play Abzan because Abzan Charm and Murderous Rider are amazing. They’re good against control, and aggro/midrange decks.
January 5, 2020 1:09 p.m.