dealing with cheaters (socially, casually)
Social forum
Posted on Jan. 18, 2016, 11:35 p.m. by nobu_the_bard
I don't really know where to ask this so I'm posting it here. It's not really a game question, it's a question of how to behave in certain situations. I've been playing Magic awhile now (close to 20 years I guess now) and had an infrequently recurring problem on occasion when it comes to dealing with other players, and I've never really figured out what to do about this.
To be clear; I don't really play in events much. When I do, it's usually prerelease events, so this mostly applies to casual meetups ("Commander Night" or some "Kitchen Table" and that sort of thing). That is, places where you don't have a judge or some clear authority to defer to.
Occasionally you get a guy who just cheats blatantly. It's happened to me at various times in various venues over the years. Like, a guy who's playing Commander with cards that he obviously knows are banned or otherwise aren't legal- I don't mean proxies, newbie errors, or honest mistakes (like using a recently banned card), I mean like just straight-up obviously ignoring deck construction rules. For example using Power Nine cards, a Commander in completely unrelated colors, or Middle Ages Magic* stickers. It seems like if I'm the one to call people out on this, somehow it doesn't have any impact (people laugh it off, argue with me, etc).
When this occurs, I'm never sure what course of action to suggest anyway - none of the things I've ever tried seem to accomplish anything (Ask he concede: I get laughed at. Ask he replace the illegal cards somehow: I get argued with. Ask he play another deck or something next game: he says it's only deck. This kind of thing) If I ignore it, nobody else says anything, even if he makes the game miserable (plays lockdown and keeps everyone sitting there not making plays as long as possible, or does other annoying things, etc).
I've never been good at dealing with people so this has always baffled me. It seems absurdly childish, but I'm not talking about 12-year-olds here; at least one of these guys I've encountered in the last 3 or so years was mid-40s. I've wondered if it's because I'm not good at managing relationships or communicating with most people (I'm nearly deaf IRL and have to focus closely on the game to keep up with it), that I'm not somehow "in the know" or missing some kind of social cue everyone else knows. It's happened to me in more than one venue in the last couple years, with different people, though. So I thought I'd ask here how other people have dealt with these things, outside of a strictly rules-focused context.
Ah well. Sorry if this sounds incredibly awkward! It's just stumped me for so many years, and I never tried just straight-up asking. I thought maybe asking with a different context, for how to behave, not just what is right/wrong, might help. Reading another thread where a person mentioned the difference between Social and Casual got me to think about this as an issue that maybe isn't really related to the game rules themselves.
*Oh I forgot, if you aren't familiar with Middle Ages Magic. You can live without knowing though. It's terrible.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
@DrFunk27: I like the idea, thanks, about the voting. I mean, not Winter Orb so much; trying to fight like with like doesn't typically seem to work out so great (Jaya's advice aside), particularly for all of the other people it'll impact if we do multiplayer, which is what I usually play.
@vampirelazarus: This is a great idea, but unfortunately assault charges might cause me trouble at work, and it'll have less impact if I come back around after I've retired 40 years from now.
@GearNoir: Thanks for linking it. I'll need some time to process that but it seems helpful.
Those stickers, argh. In New England sometimes you run into older players that have one or two or three. I saw someone put "Pyrian Spring" (Sylvan Library as a land) into a Azusa, Lost but Seeking Commander deck, and someone had a Tutenkhamen Commander deck (it was basically red/black infect).
January 19, 2016 12:07 a.m. Edited.
I... I should have trusted your judgement.. I really didn't want to know what Middle Ages Magic was.. Ew.
Aside from my mental scarring, I'm sticking to my statement in the other thread posted here: Call them out, and if they don't stop, stop playing with them (Especially if their cheating is THAT intense...)
January 19, 2016 12:41 a.m.
julianjmoss says... #7
If its a casual setting with people at meet-ups or just at the card shop my first instinct would be to assume that they are aware of the cards not being legal and using them in the casual environment since edh or casual in general allows that kind of stuff Presuming everyone allows it. I guess the best way to respond is just to make it clear that you want to play a game that follows all the rules and you don't want to play against their illegal deck. That's the most concise and polite way to do it. This is also from experience at my shop where that happens occasionally but is a conscious decision and isn't ill intentioned.
January 19, 2016 1:02 a.m.
Well, if he keeps playing unless cards, gently ask your playgroup of you also are allowed to play with Power 9. If he's allowed to play with whatever card he want, it then seems like your playgroup actually don't care about the normal rules. Now just go proxy some Power 9!
January 19, 2016 1:24 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #9
Hell, if you stop caring about rules you can do some crazy shit
January 19, 2016 1:51 a.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #10
Lmao when he pulls out banned cards or even middle age stickers you take a pen and make up a card that says "target player loses the game" for 
and play that. Because thats what hes doing: playing random made up trash and unbalanced broken cards.
No srsly... Talk to the other ppl about it or even the shop owner.
January 19, 2016 6:16 a.m.
Man, it's a bummer that someone has put you in this awkward situation.
I can see the scenario going a few ways; but you either need to be really polite and firm about it, and/or gain the support from the play group.
"Sir, you do know those cards are illegal [in this format], right?"
If it gets bad:
"I may not be the best player here, but at least I play fair." (Use hand motions to include the other players who are also playing fair)
Or:
"You do know that you're 40 years old and cheating at a kids game, right?"
Obviously it isn't always fun to shame someone, but they've set themselves up for an embarrassing moment so fuck them. You could hold a Pokemon card in your pocket, then when they play an illegal card be like "in response I FLASH IN CHARZARD!" Make sure you choose a card with super unfair abilities that could - in theory - be used with magic cards.
The hard part is keeping your cool. Don't let them rile you up
January 19, 2016 9:33 a.m. Edited.
RussischerZar says... #12
I beg to differ: Magic is not a kids game. It even says 13+ on the packages :P
January 19, 2016 11:05 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #13
Ok, I've been thinking about the whole "punching them" thing.
What you gotta do is Pavlov that shit.
Whenever you sit across from them, and they do an illegal move, or cheat, kick them. And apologize for kicking them, act like you're adjusting your seat or something.
It'll take awhile, but eventually they'll stay to associate pain with cheating and they'll stop.
DrFunk27 says... #2
I really want these stickers now.....
To answer your question, there really isn't a single one answer that applies to every scenario. The best way to approach these is to be kind, courteous and respectful. It sounds like you've tried negotiating, or asking that he replace the cards. I've not run into these scenarios myself but maybe among the players you can take a vote on actions. That way it isn't just you targeting a player, but the majority making a decision.
Hope this helps!
You could also just play things like Winter Orb to make them leave. lol
January 18, 2016 11:41 p.m.