Just Chatting - Take 3
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Posted on April 24, 2015, 4:02 p.m. by Didgeridooda
Third time's a charm.
Remember to please post Magic-related discussions in separate threads as appropriate. This thread is for non-MTG or very casual discussions; we want to foster new and continual game discussion across the rest of the site as well.
Admin Note:
Attention Modern players! There's a new Modern Chat. Please use that thread to discuss Modern-related things.
Attention Standard players! There's a new Standard Chat. Please use that thread to discuss Standard-related things.
bijschjdbcd says... #2
Jex Vialed in a Spirit of the Labyrinth in response to a Brainstorm.
May 6, 2015 9:31 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #3
Notion theifing a dack fayden +1 is equally satisfying. Can I get video link to that match it you have it fluffy?
May 6, 2015 9:32 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #5
now that we have the legacy players here they won't shut up lol
May 6, 2015 9:39 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #6
Hahahaha seems like we'll need a Legacy thread! With all these features, there's almost no place left for other random threads on the homepage XD
May 6, 2015 9:41 p.m.
A whole 5 pages huh...
How do I go about setting up a legacy discussion thing similar to the modern discussion or this? Or can someone else do it? Obviously won't be as popular but still would be nice to have.
May 6, 2015 9:43 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
I'm not irritated or sad.
Imagine a parent who, tired of little Bobby walking into the table, goes out to the garage, comes back, and puts Bobby's bike helmet on for him.
You are Bobby. God dang it Bobby.
May 6, 2015 10:09 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #16
I literally fell off my chair reading that epoch XD
May 6, 2015 10:11 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
Aaaaaand we learn that epoch thinks we're handicapped
May 6, 2015 10:11 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #18
AHEM
Epochalyptik says... "I love you all, but you worry me like a small child with a kitchen knife."
May 6, 2015 10:14 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #20
epoch, no be sad!
I could make you feel better!
I have a feeling femme wants to too...
May 6, 2015 10:21 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #22
I DONT HATE YOU EPOCH!
Do you hate me?
plz dont hate me...
May 6, 2015 10:29 p.m.
I eagerly await the day that Derp starts to become mature.
May 6, 2015 10:35 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #25
Tibs, that's like asking a burn deck to play Spaghettis.
May 6, 2015 10:36 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #26
@xzzane but then it'd be boring.
I HATE boring.
also, good luck with the waiting part. only 3 or 4 years to go! maybe longer!
May 6, 2015 10:37 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #27
All i want is to be a respectable player y'all
Like how does one do that?
May 6, 2015 10:37 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #30
play mono-red mill.
not even joking, I've done it, it was fucking marvelous
May 6, 2015 10:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #32
But seriously. You're going to have to give us a little more to work with than that. Because the answer to "how do I git gud" is, of course, "git gud."
May 6, 2015 10:40 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #33
mine? or epoch's?
speeking of which, EPOCH, DONT HATE ME!!!
May 6, 2015 10:40 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #34
xzzane: I look forward to that day, too, and I just recently started using this site again. I think most of us do. I could be wrong.
May 6, 2015 10:41 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #35
How to describe it.
Like i feel uneducated about this game in general. I brew pretty damned well as those who joined my steam could probably tell you but i fall face first in modern construction. Not because i don't know how to play but because i can't do two things well
1: sideboard efficiently. I know the silver bullets of each archetype but always either over dillute my deck with sb cards or don't bring in enough
2: how does one go 7-8 years in this game and feel overwhelmed? You hear the pros talk about "lines of play" i can't get my head around multiple ways of doing things. I always take the immediate action.
May 6, 2015 10:45 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #36
No matter how much you wish for me to grow up, you can't deny that I make things more interesting.
I'm the guy in the group everyone rats on. every group needs that, no matter what.
I'm like a mandatory spellskite, that cost much, much less
May 6, 2015 10:48 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #37
Think ahead? What playing card Y does 1,2 or 3 turns from now versus card X. How you sequence playing multiple cards can also change depending on order.
May 6, 2015 10:48 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #38
Epoch I totally saw that coming and I clicked it anyways.
May 6, 2015 10:48 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #39
I can't help you with Modern. Drop by the Modern Chat for that one.
As for the second problem, learn to play control (if you haven't already; if you have, learn again).
Control is a very good way to learn and reinforce the fundamental values of good play (not including deckbuilding): timing, patience, calculation, multi-stratting, trading, and manipulation.
Line theory is covered by Reid Duke.
May 6, 2015 10:50 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #40
I guess I need to work on that. Overall, like I said, I'd like to try my hand in some real events.
May 6, 2015 10:50 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #41
I'll give that a read. Control makes me uncomfortable but I suppose I could give it a try in standard or something as a babysteps sort of deal
May 6, 2015 10:52 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #42
Varm you see the Mardu Dragon deck???
Also try playing Control, Gives you a little perspective.
May 6, 2015 11 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #44
When I play Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition, my mind is working three turns in advance. Obviously, I'm aware that I cannot predict for certain every play that will be made within even one turn. But I can observe the game state, think about what my opponents have, what their style is, what their decks are likely to do, and what options could feasibly be available, and use all of this information to assemble a fairly reasonable model of the game's trajectory.
I determine when it's necessary to bluff, and when it's opportune for me to take a risk. I determine when I can afford to advance my own strategy and when I need to hold resources to deal with an opponent's imminent game-changing play. I know what I need to tutor for and when, and what the optimal resource use on each turn is (counting number of plays, value of plays, potential for plays later on, immediate need for plays, budgeting for responses, advancement versus overextension, etc.).
These things are very much senses that come to you as you play. There's no way to give you a manual or even to train you and have you playing a Pro Tour level out of the gate. If you're a fast learner, and if you understand psychology and chess theory, then you'll have an easier time of it, and you'll see results faster. But anyone can learn to be a good player, given enough time and exposure.
And they're not exclusive to control, either. It's just that control, by virtue of its game plan, forces you to be more conscious of them because you have no choice if you want to win. Duke makes a good point early on about the mistake of playing haphazardly. Being aggressive is not the same as being reckless, and being calculating does not require that you play slowly or play control.
May 6, 2015 11:03 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #45
VampireArmy, I tried my hand at modern by starting out with Cruel Control before switching to something tier 1, namely Naya Burn. Playing control definitely gave me some perspective. I lost a lot of games at first. Then again, that could have been the fact it was Cruel Control. Nonetheless once I learned my store's meta, when to counter, kill, or what have you, the deck became a lot easier to pilot. So I carried that experience over to a Burn deck. Although they're on opposite sides of the spectrum, the experience and knowing when to do things help a bit. I think Control is one of the hardest decks to play out there. And I just don't have the patience to carry games on for that long and durdling until a win-con arrives.
May 6, 2015 11:05 p.m.
Unfortunately there really isn't a good control deck in standard these days. Esper Dragons is... a midrange deck with counter spells.
What I find helpful is being able to remember exactly how many copies of each card is in your deck.
For example, turn five, your opponent casts a siege rhino, onto a field that already has a fleecemane lion and a courser, and five lands. You have Silumgar's Scorn, Ojutai, Hero's Downfall, and Dig Through Time, amongst other cards. Do you counter, let it resolve and kill it, or dig?
Hard to know. However, if you know your deck has 4 Crux of Fate, then i'd say you prob let it resolve and then Dig. You're going to be taking a good chunk of damage this turn, but you aren't in range of dying. Hitting that Crux is the best way to get ahead at this point, and it's an absolute blowout. If your deck only has 2 crux and a perilous vault, then you probably will want to counter the siege rhino and save the downfall for a planeswalker.
You've just gotta play with the deck enough to get burnt by bad plays, until you can recognize bad plays by intuition.
I know most people find it boring and confusing, but I find control mirror matches to be absolute fantastic. Great way to learn your deck inside and out.
May 6, 2015 11:05 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #47
I somewhat get that. Basically I can bait pretty well and I can maybe get a thought process together to understand one or two turns in advance against certain matchups. I guess it really comes down to i'm a sloppy player. I make a lot of the same mistakes over and over and mentally kick myself for it. Lack of focus can do that.
May 6, 2015 11:07 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #48
Two tricks for that:
1) Mentally announce the steps and phases as you progress, then reinventory the game state to keep yourself aware of all cards, effects, and statistics.
2) Recalculate optimal plays as the game progresses. If your opponent does something, you should think about how it affects your best option. If it doesn't affect it, you should have an explanation for why it doesn't.
And remember that the optimal play isn't necessarily the fastest one. You aren't goldfishing anymore. "Optimal" means that you'll be in the best position to safely advance your strategy. The "safely" is the key part there; you shouldn't feel pressured to rush through the game. Always keep an answer open if possible.
May 6, 2015 11:12 p.m.
I tend to think several steps in advance with my token deck. This is best against other aggro decks though, it's harder to predict combo decks or control decks. Once you've played a certain deck for a really long time you tend to know how the board state will progress, and what to look out for. Just find the deck that you click with, so to speak, and keep playing that would be my advice.
ThisIsBullshit says... #1
Welp uhhhh
sacks goat
May 6, 2015 9:29 p.m.