My first 4 months of MTG might be my last. Advice?
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Posted on July 19, 2015, 1:30 a.m. by nobodygaming
TL;DR version - most experienced MTG player in my friend circle is a jerk who made my girlfriend cry. Should we keep playing?
Full story below
I would like to apologise in advance if this is posted in the wrong forum, but the story below is still very recent and I have a need to get it written down in a place where some advice might be offered.
I started playing Magic because last year my girlfriend wanted to learn so she could play with our friends. I am a lapses YuGiOh/Pokemon/etc. card game player from almost a decade ago, and while I did play in some state and national level tournaments in those games I never touched MTG. When I met me current group of friends they tried to get me to learn, but the fear of spending hundreds of dollars and adding more long boxes of old cards to my closet kept me away. Nonetheless when PAX Australia came around I took the opportunity to learn with my GF so I could play with her cards, and later joined in with my friends casual drafting where she kept my draft cards.
My friends are 15-20 year MTG Vets, they don't play legacy or anything high end but they have a lot of card knowledge and game experience. When I finally decided to start collecting my own cards in April to build constructed decks, it was only a month before I was building modern decks comparable with the 'alpha' player of our group (because I have years of TCG deck building experience). This is a big deal because the 'alpha' player builds EVERYONES decks. I'm talking about 17 year long players that haven't built decks in 15 years because they can't compete with him so they don't even try. I don't mean to discourage them for just wanting to play and not build, but this is where my problems are starting.
My girlfriend has no TCG experience, and while I am helping her learn about basic deck building + card interactions, the 'alpha' player in our group is the complete opposite of helpful. In our first multiplayer commander game last night (using pre constructed decks) my GF was basically bullied out of the game by him telling her how to cast her bounce spells and what to target. He was already playing his own deck, and telling another new commander player next to him what cards to play every turn. He was misreading his own cards and playing incorrectly only a turn earlier, and doesn't take kindly to people telling him not to play other peoples games.
I should have spotted his behaviour earlier before we played commander when I asked that 5 of us try my budget mono decks in a casual multiplayer game. Turn one I Duress and remove Ensoul Artifact from his hand, and even though he drew into another one next turn, he started playing recklessly as if his entire strategy was gone. Throwing a single 5/5 creature at 2 of us rather than playing any kind of smart game a 20 year vet would know how to play. He was out by turn 6, while everyone else went for another couple dozen turns.
But in our commander game he was downright rude to my girlfriend trying to tell her not to bounce his angel because he would gain life upon its reentry. This was untrue as I pointed out there was a lifegain nerf enchantment that would be in play before his next turn. He wouldn't hear any of it and that was the point my girlfriend walked out in tears. I kept things civil and after consoling her, returned and politely said we were leaving and packed up our decks.
He has yet to apologise to her or me, but his own GF was already apologising to mine for his behaviour before we left. Aside from myself, there is maybe one other person (who wasn't present) that would challenge his attitude when he does these things, so after we left I can only assume things went quiet while he controlled everyone else's games.
I feel at this point I should address that outside of my circle of friends, the MTG community I have experienced in Melbourne, Australia has been more pleasant than any of my past YGO or Pokemon experiences as a teen. Getting constructive feedback, friendly discussions, and just fun games in general at FNM has been a brief highlight for both me and my GF. She didn't win any games at her first night, but pulled Narset Transcendent in her booster prize that night. Next time she went 2-3 and even ranked higher than me that night with her Minotaur tribal deck. People were excited when she sat down and they realised she was playing Minotaurs because no one does anymore, and her games went much better with the positive attitude she experienced.
But after last night I'm unsure if we should keep playing with others. The emotional stress she had to go through in a kitchen table commander game was worse than any new or regular player deserves. I have built about 10 decks since May, not counting helping my GF understanding deck building in general, and drafting another dozen deck lists I'm still tweaking. But if the attitudes I know I'm going to encounter in my own circle are like this, than I would be ready to drop it all at a moments notice and return to my other isolated nerd hobbies. My girlfriend seems okay today, but I know it's only a matter of time until we have to play with our 'alpha' MTG friend again and that sounds incredibly off-putting to me.
If you somehow got through that wall of text then I want to say 1) I'm sorry, and 2) thank you for taking your time to read my rant. Any advice people can provide about how to (or even if I should) continue to play and be invested in MTG would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
slovakattack says... #3
I agree with addaff. Don't let this jerk ruin a pastime that brings you and your GF closer together!
July 19, 2015 1:45 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
If your experience has been overall positive I would just ignore this guy. Don't even play with him. If you enjoy his company outside of playing then still hang out with him but don't let him ruin a hobby for you. If you don't like him even outside games just cut all ties. Dude is an asshat.
July 19, 2015 1:58 a.m.
If you and your gf enjoy magic, keep playing. As you've experienced there are some great magic communities out there and you just happened to stumble upon a not so great circle of players. If he calls you out on avoiding him, endure another few times with him and mentally note what blatantly offensive things he does, but make sure you give him no margin for criticism. If he continues to be a douche, just start pointing out that he's being one BUT do it courteously. Then he can't fire back at you. If he doesn't change, then i'd say find a different group of friends and continue to go to FNM, and hopefully you'll make his other "friends" realize what a jerk he really is
July 19, 2015 2:02 a.m.
That's too bad :( :( That really sucks...
If you absolutely must play with this alpha guy again, make one thing clear before the game starts. Ask him to not comment on you or your girlfriends plays. No buts. No comments, helpful or not. Seriously, can't he let others play the game for themselves? Make their own mistakes??
That's not even the worst part. He made someone cry, he is clearly toxic for you.
I would avoid playing with that kind of person completely, but sometimes we can't help but be paired with someone who does not play the same as we do.
July 19, 2015 2:26 a.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #7
play a few times without him to see if you enjoy the game with better company
July 19, 2015 2:38 a.m.
Do what pepsi said, host it someplace cozy, get some drinks and snacks going and try to make the environment as fun and relaxing as possible.
It would be like the cavemen coming out of the cave and seeing the horse and not just the shadow! (haha... )
July 19, 2015 2:41 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #9
You mentioned that there were some other friends who were playing with you? Wouldn't it just be better to carry on playing with the other friends and leave out the controlling one?
I am fully for keeping playing, it is a fun and enjoyable experience and at very worst you and your gf should continue attending FNM or just playing with each other.
July 19, 2015 2:42 a.m.
Well my advice is to lose that naivete that everyone is supposed to play or act nice. Tell any nosy motherfcker to mind his own business. Keep playing magic because it's important to your gf and don't be such a pushover the next time he feels like a Godsire. That pssy is just a Raging Goblin with Alpha Authority. Show him Anger of the Gods and banish him to the shadow realm.
July 19, 2015 3:17 a.m.
Don't let one asshat ruin the game for you. Not all Magic players are like that. Sure, you'll bump into people like that every now and then. The trick is to just be BETTER than them, both at the game itself and at interacting with people. People can get nasty at this game, blinded by the pursuit of victory and their pride at their "skills." At the Origins prerelease, I had the displeasure of playing against someone who consistently trash-talked, attempted to bend the rules, snapped at me for not tapping my vigilant creatures when attacking (seriously, WTF), the whole nine yards. After soundly trouncing the prick, he yelled at me for being "lucky" and about how his deck had "failed him." He even pleaded with me to mark the game as his victory on the game slip so that he could have a chance at getting packs at the end of the night. The man was forty, and he behaved like a complete juvenile in front of me, a 20 year old. To really enjoy this game, you need to be able to look past losers who only concern themselves with winning. You need thick skin, which frankly is just a good thing to have in general. My advice would be to keep at the game. Jerks like that are in the minority by far. They just happen to be an obnoxiously loud minority.
July 19, 2015 3:36 a.m.
Also, for the record, commander is literally the most friendship-destroying format of all time. My playgroup is made up of really tight friends, and we quickly go at each other's throats in games of EDH. If you don't want emotional stress, I'd seriously recommend avoiding EDH. :P
July 19, 2015 3:39 a.m.
nobodygaming says... #13
Thanks to all of your for reading + responding. To answer some of the above questions my girlfriend and I are 25, and the other guy in question is in his early 30s, most of our friends fall into those 2 age groups. Magic and other tabletop/board/role playing games are usually played at his house because people leave stuff there and he usually invites people over to play.
He's actually one of my longest running friends, and outside of playing magic he is generally nice enough. Just this week he organised everyone to chip in $150+ for a ton of MTG stuff for a friend who couldn't afford a commander deck (we got him 2 + sleeves + towers + boosters) but it's only in games that his behaviour becomes an issue.
After talking with my girlfriend however, she said she would rather play with her friends who are equally new to Magic, and the occasional FNM at various stores. In fact she started the convo by telling me she found a new store close to her house that does drafts and FNM and she wanted to check it out. So maybe just a few weeks of not playing magic with him + drafting with other friends is what we need right now.
It just sucks that her first big game of commander was basically a train wreck because I see a ton in the format that I am interested in, but that is a format we might just not play in the end
July 19, 2015 4:36 a.m.
nobodygaming says... #14
As long as you don't Ninjitsu in an Okiba-Gang Shinobi I don't mind you ninja-ing in like that :D
July 19, 2015 4:55 a.m.
First things first, you need to cut this guy out of your play circle or find another group to play with.
Second thing, cut his girlfriend out of your social network as well. As soon as you said that she was apologizing on his behalf I thought "Well, this girl is worthless in this situation. She's actually making it worse. It would be better if she was uninvolved."
Third thing, there will always be jerks in MTG. There are many different reasons why MTG players are just jerks. Sometimes they are stubborn, sometimes they just think they know best, sometimes they have their own head so far up their ass they would smell their brain if it hasn't rotted away.
No matter how long the guy has been playing there is no reason for you to play with such an elitist. And do not ever, ever accept an apology on his GF's behalf. You need to act like that apology from his GF never happened because it's not his GF's job to apologize for him but it is that guys job to act like a man and an adult and recognize when he's been wrong and to try and fix it.
MTG is not a place for big egotistical babies and it sounds like that's exactly this guys problem if he won't shut up unless he gets his way. He needs to learn personnel boundaries and understand that personal growth is called that because it's personal, not "interpersonal" and if he can't do that he should be left alone so he can reflect on why people no longer want to hang around with him.
The group may not understand and it may feel lonely at first but if you want to keep going to the same shops and not play with him just do it. Go there, sit and play with your GF and and if he asks to play tell him point blank you don't want to play with him. If he responds calmly and accepts it then given enough time you can try playing with him again. If he throws a fit and/or gets an attitude then you just have fresh evidence that you've made the right choice.
In the end MTG is just like anything else. There will always be some assholes.
July 19, 2015 5:40 a.m.
Stay away from this person! If you are really friends with him (or your girlfriend is), he will apologize. If he eventually doesn't, just ignore him after a while. The way this asshole sounds, he will not care.
July 19, 2015 8:38 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #17
Don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch. Don't put up with his crap, as long as all card interactions are legal you just tell him you don't care what he thinks, it's what the play is. After awhile he'll either straighten out or change venues. Win-win either way.
July 19, 2015 9:27 a.m.
I have a couple of friends who I like very much, but I don't enjoy playing Magic with.
I still play with them, because it makes me a better player.
The way I deal with it is just to build decks that thrash theirs. It doesn't always work, but overall I have become a better player and builder.
I think your GF was right to move on. If you aren't getting anything out of a MtG environment then don't stay.
If it was me I would have told him repeatedly to stop telling me how to play. I did that enough times with my friends that they got sick of hearing it, and stopped. These days they are too focused trying to beat me to say anything.
I am a 48 year old woman. I face the snide comments and personal beat downs all the time.
Winning tends to curtail that rubbish.
July 19, 2015 10:13 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #19
I'd just put it out there; tell this guy if he's going to behave that way you won't play Magic with him, full stop. Then follow through on that. No negotiation, I'm talking about an ultimatum.
Either he'll get the picture and shape up, or he won't and you'll know that the only solution is not to play with him... which also solves the problem since his behavior in these games becomes a non-issue if you're not in them.
July 19, 2015 5:03 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #20
You've got an FNM place, that's good. That makes your path very clear, just go have fun where the douchebags are a powerless minority.
It does become more complicated if you want to play with your friends though. He's hosting the games, that makes it hard to exclude him from the group. But nothing keeps YOU from inviting people, right? Just invite one or two of your friends for the evening as you usually would. It doesn't even have to be an official "game night", just tell them on occasion it's okay to bring their decks when they come to visit. Once they do, make that evening an enjoyable experience. Or simpler, when they are over at your place, just ask them to help you playtest a deck idea you're working on. The rest will happen all by itself.
What I don't understand is why none of the others seem bothered by his antics. Do they like being hand puppets in a masturbatory game of one? Do they enjoy winning or losing based on decisions they did not make themselves? How submissive must a person be to enjoy that?
I can think of two explanations: Either they are lazy pushovers who actually want to be led on a leash, or - and I think that is more probable - they don't realize that they could be enjoying themselves a lot more than they do.
July 24, 2015 12:30 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #21
nobodygaming you mentioned he was a friend of yours, and although I don't know how close you are, have you considered talking to him? Maybe not at FNM but when you're hanging out or whatever and say "hey man you really hurt my girlfriend's feelings at Magic the other day, could you try and tone it down a bit?" or something along those lines.
If he's just oblivious and a good friend, he might try to fix it. If not, I'd suggest going to a different store (sounds like you've already found one) and/or not joining them at his house for Magic.
Edit: looks like I'm a bit slow on the uptake, this was posted a week ago, but the advice still stands :)
July 26, 2015 11:56 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #22
I was kinda late too (and realized it too late for an edit), but I think that problems like this are neither completely solved in a week nor so unique that they are not worth talking about a week later. Your post is expressing a quite friendly and optimistic stance which I think has contributed to the topic and is not redundant.
addaff says... #2
I'm just curious on his age. It sounds like he is a douchebag. Don't go over there the next few times you get invited over and try to set up some games with the other friends.
July 19, 2015 1:40 a.m.