What do you do when someone thinks that infinite combos are "unfair" and "broken"?
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Posted on July 16, 2015, 1:43 p.m. by TheAnnihilator
So, I know that the answer may be that there's no reason to do anything, but here's why I'm bringing it up:
My friend, who is somewhat casual, likes to play my modern Affinity deck against me. Now, I know he doesn't like combos, so I'd stayed away from playing my favorite deck (Splinter Twin) against it.
After many, many games of playing against him, I decided that it was finally time to break out my go-to tourney deck. I combo'd a turn before he would be able to kill me, and he responded "Oh, that's so broken! Common, play the game right -- just do the loop once. Wizards shouldn't have let an infinite combo exist in the first place."
How do I handle this? I feel like it's unfair to restrict what I'm able to play just to please this friend. I've talked to him about it, and he still feels negatively towards combos. Has anyone had similar experiences?
Epochalyptik says... #3
Wizards has made combo one of the game's three central deck archetypes. Tell your friend that he's welcome to dislike combos, but he's not welcome to invent bullshit reasons or controls and pass them off as legitimate.
July 16, 2015 2:02 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Regarding how to actually handle your playgroup, I suggest finding other players who share your perspective of the game. It's unfair of you to force your friend to participate in games he or she genuinely does not enjoy and want.
July 16, 2015 2:10 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #5
Explain to him that he's playing an actual literal combo deck also.
July 16, 2015 2:16 p.m.
Well in a way he is kinda right. Wizards isn't a fan of infinite combos as they remove game interaction between players and games become 2 people essentially playing by themselves.
It's pretty much why modern was created and why they set up the guidelines of it being a format where decks can't win consistently before turn 4. They couldn't simply eliminate combo decks from legacy and vintage to make games more interactive. So they created a format where they could limit the use and viability of combo decks through ban list to create what is supposed to be a highly interactive format. Obviously combo decks still exist but they clearly aren't as abundant as they are in eternal formats.
So while he may have said it out of frustration because he doesn't know how to play around your combo, he really wasn't as out of line as you appear to think he was.
July 16, 2015 2:18 p.m.
Your friend sounds likee he has a fairly narrow scope of what magic is. Take him to a modern night (if an LGS in your area has one) and let him watch in horror as twin and podless pod decks try to combo for the win.
Also he wants to play casually but uses YOUR Affinity deck? That seems off to me. Not because it's yours but because Casual and Affinity (and most other tuned modern decks) don't really scream "casual player" to me.
July 16, 2015 2:18 p.m.
abenz419 ~ while I understand your perspective I have to disagree. Yes wizards does want to LIMIT combo kill in modern. Not eliminate it completely.
Also his friend was playing an affinity deck. Also a combo deck as GlistenerAgent so graciously pointed out.
If his friend wants to play non competetive games fine. But he really can't complain when he loses to a competition deck while also playing a competition deck.
July 16, 2015 2:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
Enjoying a less competitive game doesn't preclude someone from using a deck that is also used in competitive games. Casual and competitive are largely about intent and play style. It's also not necessitated that comparable power levels between decks invalidates one's perspective on the game.
July 16, 2015 2:26 p.m.
@Bellock86 You can have the worlds most competitive deck and only play it casually. Just because your playing a deck that is highly tuned and capable of taking down big tournament doesn't mean you can't play it casually around the kitchen table with friends. Also, maybe his friend only plays around the kitchen table so he doesn't have a large collection of modern staples making it easier to just play his friends deck since it's already built (which happens to be affinity).
Just because someone plays the game casually and not competitively doesn't mean they have to operate on a budget.
July 16, 2015 2:28 p.m.
It sounds like you value the time you spend with this friend who lacks an appreciation of combo. The best thing you can do is try to broaden that person's perspective. It can be easy to forget there is a whole magic community outside the kitchen table, and there's more than just 'affinity' vs 'combo' out there. Let them try your combo deck for themselves, or play their affinity deck against them. Make them take like 5 losses in a row, then they will know how you have been feeling when they crush you 5-0 in a set. You sat there and spent the time to get steam rolled by their aggressive deck, the least they can do is sit there while you combo them out a few times. No one wants to play a game they are %90 expected to lose every time, so either you guys need to get new decks, or introduce more players to your group, cuz I personally wouldn't sit there getting kicked in the head by affinity over and over for very long before going and doing something else. Either I'm busting out Twin or I'm going to go play something else, likely away from the affinity player who wont even let me beat them. Magic: means something different to everyone, for this affinity player, it means winnings every game, and that's not an accurate representation of the game. Your supposed to take losses at some point and your not allowed to get upset when someone 'combo' kills you, as if they just cheated. If you like and spend time playing the game, respect the cards and their abilities, by saying you dont respect or even recognize certain cards or combos, your no longer playing the same magic as the rest of us. I dont like to play against people who make up bad house rules, like combo not being allowed, that's just stupid. There are way more egregious matters of the game to be upset about, like the cost of cardboard with text printed on them, it's outrageous. The fact that either of you would invest into modern then have such immature reactions is pretty ridiculous. Your playing Modern, I think you can handle an immature affinity player. Take them to a Modern FNM, make them play against an actual meta, I'm sure there are far worse things than Twin. Broaden their perspective. If I had Twin built, I wouldn't spend my time relegating it to my backpack because my friend wont let me beat him with it. I'd go to a Modern FNM in my area instead. Where you could make new friends that aren't scrubs.
July 16, 2015 2:34 p.m. Edited.
TheAnnihilator says... #12
@Beghz -- I played a different, non-Splinter Twin deck. And, yes he won some, but I also won some. xD
I built UWR control with some proxies and played that (UWR was what I played b4 Twin).
@All, this friend is very close to me. He just doesn't have a great grasp on magic. In fact, he doesn't own any cards, but plays mtg with me so we can spend more time together. He just likes what Affinity does, so that's what he plays against me.
July 16, 2015 2:45 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #13
TheAnnihilator Yeah, then I would take his opinion with a grain of salt. Obviously, he is not really familiar with the game of Magic outside of your kitchen table.
July 16, 2015 2:51 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #14
Also...it sounds like this friend is playing Magic mostly to please you...so you might want to be a little extra tolerant of some of his distaste for combo and just play what he's comfortable playing against.
And this is coming from a combo player/brewer.
July 16, 2015 2:57 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #15
Fair enough, UrbanAnathema. I mean, I guess I don't mind playing non-combo decks against him. Am i just being unreasonable?
July 16, 2015 3:11 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #16
If this were a fellow player in the Magic community I would say absolutely not. But given that this person owns no cards and just plays with you...I would just try to ensure that he/she is having a good time when they are playing with you.
July 16, 2015 3:34 p.m.
Well you did say that he has no cards of his own and is basically playing with you just so you guys can hang out. I mean it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to avoid things that limit the interaction or shut him out of your games. At least till he becomes more experienced and has a better understanding of the game.
Pretty much in the same way you wouldn't try to teach someone how to play the game and then use your control deck to lock them out and prevent them from playing anything. They aren't going to have fun or learn anything and therefore are unlikely to come back to play/learn more.
July 16, 2015 3:45 p.m.
My only thing is, infinite combos are inherently broken. Thats why they are tournament decks and people begrudge the fair decks. I would just echo what others have said with regard to how you should proceed.
July 16, 2015 4:19 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #19
Sounds like he would enjoy the Standard meta much more than the Modern meta. Pretty much all of decks are "fair" and games involve more player interaction. There's an off chance he might take to the game more than he already has and start acquiring cards himself as the format is more affordable and accessible.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #2
hand him a playset of Pithing Needle and say deal with it yourself
July 16, 2015 1:51 p.m.